Confessional

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Dec 132010
 

This is not blame; this is me talking about how I feel about these things. I need to get them off my chest in order to get past them.

When it comes to the Fate side of things, I’m leaning towards getting really frustrated that Evil Hat is so small, and populated by people who are very good but very busy. It’s taking 100+% and then some of our collective attention span to focus on doing the next (and possibly only) Dresden Files supplement, and to do that we’ve had to put off working on Core Fate entirely, especially once we started to get a grasp of the magnitude of our ambitions with Core.

As a result I’m left feeling — irrationally, probably — like the Fate boat is sailing onward and we failed to board it. This is the hazard of publishing an open system, really — people get impatient when you are slow, and they run on forward without you.

Not that I’m feeling like we’d run to the same places. A lot of the third party Fate stuff out there is recognizably good, but also recognizable as not my bag. Diaspora remains one of the exceptions, there: lots of innovation, divergences in its genre, all that. Multiple “generic” implementations are out there now, too, often making choices that go too light or too traditional. The market is in the process of confusing itself, and in so doing makes for an almost alien (to me) landscape to be sending Fate Core out into in the year or more it’s going to take us to do that. Oh, you like Fate? Which branch, though? Evil Hat’s? SBA/LOA? AA? Diaspora? Strands? (I’m thrilled to see Fate influenced stuff that is distinctly not Fate, that said: Houses of the Blooded, Chronica Feudalis, ICONS, etc.)

Finishing up the launch of Dresden meant we finally closed out phase one of Evil Hat. Phase two is going to be a “short” one, really, in terms of intended products — the third DF book, and Core Fate.

Once that second phase is finished, though, at least for my part in things, I’ll be ready to be done with Fate. Comes a time in any open system where its earlier originators have to recognize that they no longer own it in any meaningful way, and if the third parties out there decide they want versions that cut out and alter the parts you want left in there, well, good on ‘em, because you had your time with it already.

For me, phase three (likely to overlap phase two) is going to be more about putting out some new stuff in new systems, I think. To an extent this will also be a return to smaller projects & teams — lean, focused, and hopefully faster to market too. I don’t think I’ll be doing another open system, at least not in the producing-more-than-one-book sense. (Open or not, I’d want people to see something they like and then go off and do their own, new thing with that inspiration, rather than take part in an extension parade.)

Then again all of this could be bunk. How much of this is just my personal weariness with Fate and the Open License thing? Will that weariness go away and get replaced by some fresh energy and new intentions for the oldest dog in my arsenal, Fate?

I have no fricking clue.

But in the meantime, I’m gonna play the shit out of Gamma World.

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 Posted by Fred Hicks at 5:53 pm  Add comments  Tagged with:
  • Tom C.

    I have nothing of import to add, other than I am enjoying playing the shit out of Gamma World with you, and hope to continue to do so.

  • http://www.jennmercer.com Jenn

    Sounds like you need to add a few people to your crew. It would still be small, but people would get a chance to breath.

    • http://www.deadlyfredly.com/ Fred Hicks

      That’s definitely the first-blush “solution”, but when I’ve looked deeper I’ve concluded that it needs to be done super-carefully — we have the *right* cooks in the kitchen, and need to be certain that new cooks won’t set something important on fire.

    • Matthew D. Gandy

      Yeah, adding more people to the Evil Hat crew is sort of the qualitative version of the mythical man-month problem.

    • http://www.genreville.com Josh Jasper

      Getting quality people can be a problem, but on the “plus” side, the recession means there’s lots of quality people looking for work. Possibly some experienced, industry respected people. I’ve seen some people let go in the magazine and book publishing industry who’s loss at any other time would have been unthinkable.

      Good hunting, if you end up doing that.

  • The Drau

    Anything a lowly volunteer can do to help from something of a distance?

    • http://www.deadlyfredly.com/ Fred Hicks

      Not sure. I’m fresh to articulating my thoughts here (even if the thoughts themselves aren’t that new), so I need to let ‘em sit and percolate a bit.

  • http://www.uncledark.livejournal.com Lon Sarver

    That sounds like an entirely reasonable way to go with the ‘Hat. Y’all are a small shop, and very good at focused products. While I, personally, am waiting semi-patiently for FATE Core, you have to work at your own speed. Anything else would mean sacrificing either product quality or personal sanity, and neither of those is a good thing to lose.

  • http://Thatsnotmysquid.com Gareth

    From my perspective, you’re in a position similar to wotc during the d20 boom – people are doing lots of stuff with the system, and jumping into niches before you can get your version out – but your stuff still has added weight of legitimacy. The core of FATE is a locus somewhere between the SOTC and Dresden Files rules – and I don’t think that will be changed by the release of any other FATE books other than an Evil Hat branded corebook. The public perception is that Evil Hat ‘owns’ FATE.

  • TheUnshaven

    I was basically going to say what Gareth said, and I think a lot of the discussion surrounding the generic FATE books which have been coming out – even from the authors – has been phrased as “a generic FATE core book,” whereas anything from Evil Hat will be “THE generic FATE core book.”

    So far people have also been pretty up-front with occasions where the system has been taken in a more traditional direction, too.

    The main thing I’d suggest is that you keep working with people who inspire you, and who you have fun with. If more people enter that orbit, so much the better. Likewise for situations where The Fun winds up not being FATE; there’s no timelimit, so if it becomes fun again in future, we’re still going to be here. Otherwise, I hope you keep enjoying the world, and thanks for letting us share your fun.

    - The Unshaven.

  • http://www.mattcaron.net Matthew Caron

    A couple things:

    Firstly, you’ve been talking about Gamma World a lot, and it’s piqued my interest. What’s the deal with the cards, though? It seems very.. different, and I’m not sure if I like it or not. It has a “You’re getting CCGs in my RPG! No, you’re getting RPGs in my CCG!” feel to it.

    Secondly, your post makes me sad, which is why I feel like commenting.

    From my point of view:

    1. I am anxiously awaiting Core FATE, but not to the level which I was awaiting Dresden. So, your delay doesn’t bother me that much.

    2. I would LOVE to see a near future somewhat fantastic SF setting done in FATE.

    3. I almost wonder if you could take a Savage Worlds type model there. A skinny, pretty inexpensive core book (say sub $20) and a variety of specific toolkit supplements. (Sci-Fi, Horror, Fantasy, etc.). I’ve noticed that, as a general rule, Evil Hat favors these dense phonebook-like tomes. Don’t get me wrong, they’re gorgeous, but one of the selling points to my current game being run in SW is that the core book was $10.

    4. I don’t particularly like “closed” systems. But, then again, I’m an Open Source hacker, so that might be part of it. However, I don’t particularly care about purpose-built systems – they get a pass. Anything which wants to be a “generic” type game (generic fantasy, generic modern, generic sci-fi), I would want to be open or, at least, easily licensed. Savage Worlds, for example, has broad support from a variety of vendors, and they are all (reasonably) compatible. So, I can pick and choose from a variety of competing products. Something done similarly with FATE would work well. On the other hand, a lot of the “purpose built” systems (think 90% of what is on IPR) are very much non-generic. In that case, I don’t care if they are open or not – they are designed as standalone games.

    I don’t know if any of this is useful or not, it’s likely just a big ramble.

    Oh, and to echo the sentiments of the above – a FATE core book without Evil Hat’s name* on it, isn’t really definitive. I might get one, might even run it, but I’ll still buy the EH version when it arrives. The quality alone is worth it.

    * = Unless it has your name on it. Not that I think you would do a Core FATE book without EH, but I would accept that as a substitute.

    • http://www.deadlyfredly.com/ Fred Hicks

      Gamma World: The cards take care of the 4e power & item implementation issues when moving things over to a randomized selection ethos. Think of them not as two decks of cards, but as two random generation tables that take care of all the on-the-fly transcription and reference work for you. The core deck is very solid; despite how some collectoholics react to the CCGish element, the boosters truly are optional — you don’t need them (they just add more entries to your random generation table). The positives they bring to the game outweigh the negatives for me by far.

      Yeah, I hear what you’re saying about closed systems, but more and more I like the idea of creating “purpose-built systems”. With Fate, I’ve already covered the whole “generic” thing, it feels like, so the idea of doing more of that feels like wheel reinvention.

      I do have my eye on the Savage Worlds model, though. :)

    • http://decafbad.net Craig Maloney

      I have to say that I’ve been very pleased with FATE. It’s definitely a system that I can relate to, and takes the core of FUDGE to an awesome level. I’m looking forward to the Core FATE rules, but I can totally understand the feeling of being burned out. Dresden Files and Spirit of the Century are incredible labors of love, so pushing out yet another labor of love (Core FATE) is not something that one would look forward to doing any time soon. I concur that until Evil Hat makes a Core FATE book, the closest we have to “official FATE” are the SoTC and DF. I’m very pleased with the other FATE implementations, but Evil Hat is really to me the soul of FATE.

      Also have to say that the openness of FATE is really what draws me to it (being another Open Source nut. :) )

      Anywho, long story short, love FATE, looking forward to Core FATE, and hoping for more FATE. :)

    • http://immagini-di-vita.com Lugh

      The cards do not really add a collectible aspect to Gamma World any more or less than the miniatures line added a collectible aspect to D&D 3.x. You can collect them. Collecting them can make your game cooler. But they are there to add fun new options. They are like mini-splatbooks, but with no focus and a new kind of distribution method.

  • http://www.7skies.net/ Chad Underkoffler

    I feel you, mang. This is how I’ve been feeling about PDQ since S7S came out — kind of in a “moving on” phase. The stuff’s out there (free and for-pay), people are using it, and I’ve been doing it for 6+ years.

    Time to move onto something new.

    (One of which might be a FATE-hack/-drift of S7S for a slim Crail-focused product. Whether that happens in tandem or after Core FATE is a whole other thing.)

    After those two things, who knows? I’d like to do something in the vein of products like DRYH, HBR, AW, or Fiasco.

    And hell, I’ve never really tried to do a full-on science fiction/space opera setting/game.

    But until then, working on the DFRPG supplement is plenty. ;)

    Oh, and hellayeah: playing the shit out of GW is a good thing.

    • http://www.deadlyfredly.com/ Fred Hicks

      Word.

  • CapnIndigo

    I’ll chime in too with loving FATE in general and DFRPG in specific. Been playing the hell out of it since DragonCon. Great system, wonderful character creation and encourages a type of character-centric gameplay that’s hard to find.

    I’m personally really looking forward to an EH FATE Core, and so is the rest of my group, even though we’ve already got Strands of FATE. We’ve been kicking about the idea of converting some of our fav games to FATE. Ones that we love the setting, but dislike the rules, so an “official” Core FATE would be awesome.

    I can totally understand the creative burnout though, be it partial or total. DFRPG took years of development and you’d been working with FATE for a while before that. The Evil Hat games that I’ve tried are all masterfully done, so I’ll eagerly await whatever you guys put out, be it FATE or something else.

  • http://www.wordstudio.net Will Hindmarch

    I read this post within an hour of its publication, I think, and I’ve been thinking about it since. I can sort of relate with that feeling that things are moving on away from you while you’re working on other things, if I’ve got it right, and I’ll admit this: I take comfort in knowing that you are mortal (or mortal-like) and feel things like this. It’s awkward when an operation you love is not as nimble as you might like. You’re doing great work, though, and that’ll get noticed over and above the timing. You’ve created a phenomenal hunger in the hobby, an appetite too big for you to feed all at once. But your readers and players have a taste for what you make. Just because they eat other meals in the meantime doesn’t mean they’re looking forward to your cooking any less, right?

    Also, word.

  • http://jeremiahmccoy.com Jeremiah McCoy

    I have been thinking on this. The thing with Fate is you have a relatively well explored system. You don’t have to rethink the system a whole lot. Maybe the solution after you get Fate Core out might be to find a new setting to get excited about. A Fate based superhero game(I have no idea if any one has tried that) or some other thing no one has done with the system might be fun. Creating worlds can often be more fun, than creating systems.

    For what it is worth, I have liked the products you guys have put out. I hope to see more. If I can help with that in anyway, just say the word. Till then, I will buy your books.

    Also I am curious about Gama World. I have seen the box and heard it was good. I may give it a shot as well in the new year.

    • http://www.mattcaron.net Matthew Caron

      I like your thinking. What I’d like to see:
      – Core FATE as digest, trade paperback, etc. Low page count. CHEAP.
      – Beautifully done, expansive, wonderful setting books (like DFRPG)

      Essentially, the Savage Worlds model. Everyone can get the core rules for $10. Then you have Solomon Kane, Deadlands, Realms of Cthulhu, etc. as “traditional” format books – they even stand alone.

      You kind of cover all your bases with that.

      That said, I don’t know how much it will really scratch Fred’s itch. It doesn’t sound like he wants to do a whole run of setting books.

  • http://www.mattcaron.net Matthew Caron

    (Fred, this is in reply to your reply to me. Apparently, there is a limit as to how deep replies can be.)

    Re: Purpose-built vs. generic, open and closed

    I think my main issue can be summed up by a series of axioms:

    If the game is tightly coupled to the mechanics, in order to utilize a specific mechanism, then I don’t really care if it is open or closed, because I don’t want to muck about with it. I want to play the setting and rules as written, with very little modification. Examples of this are:
    – Fiasco
    – Penny for your thoughts
    – Time and temp
    – DRYH

    If a game is largely setting, and the setting is readily portable to another system, then I think that it should be either a setting book for an established open system, or another open system (ideally with loose licensing on porting it to another system. I like how Eclipse Phase is doing it, and am buying their stuff for the gorgeous books and great ideas, despite the fact that I likely wouldn’t run it as written). Examples of this are:
    – Shadowrun
    – D&D
    – Eclipse Phase

    I can run any of those in a variety of systems – Savage Worlds, FATE, etc. Many of these will be “lighter” and “quicker” than the stock systems. The days of 8 hour character creation are over – much as I’d like to do that, no one has the time anymore. I have a family, a house, a job, and I need to sleep sometime. When we get together to play, I want to play. FATE’s “pick up game” mechanic worked great for that, and even the “long” creation took maybe half and hour, and was fun. Savage Worlds, while pretty much totally different (point buy vs. a story-based setup) is equally fast (my first character took me half an hour. Subsequent ones take 10 minutes).

    Also, thanks everyone for the opinions on GW. I’ve added it to the top of my Amazon list. Maybe Santa will be nice for me. (I know the wife won’t get it for me – she already ordered me a Geek Chic table…)

  • http://redbrick-limited.com Dammi

    I can sympathize–small team size and overall business leading to slow production of new stuff is one of the main problems we’re facing as well. There’s not much one can do about it though, unless someone wins the lottery and you can hire all those good cooks to work fulltime for you. ;-)

    Jealous on your santa present though. My wife would never get me such a thing. :D

  • Karl

    Given how much work you’ve put into this, I can totally understand you feeling burnt out.

    That being said, I’d advise against letting go of Fate regardless of how many different iterations there are out there for one simple reason: Evil Hat is Fate. Pretty much the entire industry backs you on this, and while some of the other material is good, it’s basically just adding unnecessary complexity to an already beautiful and creative system. And like many, I too eagerly await the release of Evil Hat’s Fate Core rulebook. No one can make a Rolex like Rolex. I urge you to not let go of what is essentially your baby.

    That being said, I’d also like to add my voice to those who recommend using the Savage Worlds model: Create a small rulebook that covers the basics of Fate, the Aspects and Refresh system, and some additional material on how a magic system could be handled, maybe some info on ship or vehicular combat, that sort of thing. And then tell developers to create worlds and *add on* systems for it while still maintaining the base rules. This way, Fate gamers everywhere will know what to expect instead of having everyone interpret the core rules differently yet still call it Fate.

    As for Gamma World, it looks interesting and I’m curious how the D&D 4th ed ruleset works with modern combat, but also I’m not terribly keen on anything that involves collectible boosters. Or more to the point, boosters with random powers instead of set ones.

    Cheers!

  • Karl

    By the way, this bears mentioning -

    I LOVE the non-Fate products Evil Hat has released (S7S and DRYH for example), so by all means keep pumping those out. In fact, an S7S supplement with stats for major NPCs, creatures, and additional info on the different islands and factions would be awesome *hint hint* :D

  • blackheart

    Just outta curiousity Fred, when you are listing the varient FATE games, what’s AA? I know the rest.

    • http://www.deadlyfredly.com/ Fred Hicks

      Awesome Adventures.

   
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