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	<title>Comments on: Everyone Is Talking About It</title>
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	<link>http://www.deadlyfredly.com/2010/02/everyones-talking-about-it/</link>
	<description>Gaming. Publishing. Media. Food. Fatherhood.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 07 Sep 2010 03:49:19 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Raven Daegmorgan</title>
		<link>http://www.deadlyfredly.com/2010/02/everyones-talking-about-it/comment-page-1/#comment-651</link>
		<dc:creator>Raven Daegmorgan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Feb 2010 23:02:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deadlyfredly.com/?p=252#comment-651</guid>
		<description>Even if you believe printing only accounts for 10% of the publisher&#039;s costs (and I don&#039;t: publishers are notorious for claiming numbers that serve their interests), according to various pro writers I&#039;ve spoken with over the years, the total cost for the publishers (all the items you mention, and assuming they are still doing all of those) only requires 30% of the profits from the book. The distribution chain eats up the other 60%-70%.

Hence why I stated there was no convincing economic reason to charge those prices for ebooks: you don&#039;t suddenly need 70% more money to spend on the production of an ebook as opposed to a physical book.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Even if you believe printing only accounts for 10% of the publisher&#8217;s costs (and I don&#8217;t: publishers are notorious for claiming numbers that serve their interests), according to various pro writers I&#8217;ve spoken with over the years, the total cost for the publishers (all the items you mention, and assuming they are still doing all of those) only requires 30% of the profits from the book. The distribution chain eats up the other 60%-70%.</p>
<p>Hence why I stated there was no convincing economic reason to charge those prices for ebooks: you don&#8217;t suddenly need 70% more money to spend on the production of an ebook as opposed to a physical book.</p>
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		<title>By: MikeRM</title>
		<link>http://www.deadlyfredly.com/2010/02/everyones-talking-about-it/comment-page-1/#comment-649</link>
		<dc:creator>MikeRM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Feb 2010 19:54:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deadlyfredly.com/?p=252#comment-649</guid>
		<description>Fred, &lt;a href=&#039;http://smashwords.com&#039; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Smashwords&lt;/a&gt; is exactly what you&#039;re talking about above. It&#039;s an independent ebook marketplace, DRM-free, creators have a &quot;pay what you like including free&quot; option, there&#039;s no gatekeeping except that you have to meet their technical requirements (and I think the usual &quot;no hate speech&quot; provisions). 

They have a cunning piece of code which takes your Word or RTF file and converts it into (from memory) 11 different ebook formats, so that people can use any device they have - iPhone, Kindle, Sony Reader, whatever.

Their cut is very reasonable, too, much less than Amazon&#039;s (which is one thing that has kept me from signing up to the Kindle store as an outlet).

It works really well, and is currently doing deals with the major ebook outlets such as B&amp;N and even Amazon to get its users&#039; content into their stores also. 

One of the things I like about them is that they&#039;re very frank about setting sales expectations - they&#039;re not trying to suck people in by promising illusory fame and riches. But with more and more people reading on ebook devices of one kind and another, I think they&#039;ll become a force to be reckoned with.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fred, <a href='http://smashwords.com' rel="nofollow">Smashwords</a> is exactly what you&#8217;re talking about above. It&#8217;s an independent ebook marketplace, DRM-free, creators have a &#8220;pay what you like including free&#8221; option, there&#8217;s no gatekeeping except that you have to meet their technical requirements (and I think the usual &#8220;no hate speech&#8221; provisions). </p>
<p>They have a cunning piece of code which takes your Word or RTF file and converts it into (from memory) 11 different ebook formats, so that people can use any device they have &#8211; iPhone, Kindle, Sony Reader, whatever.</p>
<p>Their cut is very reasonable, too, much less than Amazon&#8217;s (which is one thing that has kept me from signing up to the Kindle store as an outlet).</p>
<p>It works really well, and is currently doing deals with the major ebook outlets such as B&amp;N and even Amazon to get its users&#8217; content into their stores also. </p>
<p>One of the things I like about them is that they&#8217;re very frank about setting sales expectations &#8211; they&#8217;re not trying to suck people in by promising illusory fame and riches. But with more and more people reading on ebook devices of one kind and another, I think they&#8217;ll become a force to be reckoned with.</p>
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		<title>By: Lugh</title>
		<link>http://www.deadlyfredly.com/2010/02/everyones-talking-about-it/comment-page-1/#comment-648</link>
		<dc:creator>Lugh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Feb 2010 16:15:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deadlyfredly.com/?p=252#comment-648</guid>
		<description>So, we are moving to a space where traditional publishers are the dinosaurs, and vanity presses are the mammals?

Ultimately, I don&#039;t think we &lt;em&gt;can&lt;/em&gt; predict the new business model.  Because ebooks are just a small symptom of the bigger picture.  The entire nature of media production, media distribution, and media consumption is changing.  This isn&#039;t as simple as &quot;now I can get books delivered over the intertubes.&quot;  

One of the sea changes that I see the iPad heralding is the multimedia ebook.  You get an ebook that isn&#039;t just the printed page scanned and delivered to your glass.  You get an ebook that also comes with a soundtrack, animated illustrations, direct links to an author&#039;s site where he&#039;s uploaded bits like his working character bible, etc.  Just like the special features on a DVD.

At that point, the big publisher gains a huge role in the process again.  Sure, if you just want to deliver text to your readers, you can put out a PDF for free on your site.  But, if you want a proper ebook, you need to engage the specialists who can put you in touch with experts in other media who will work with you.  The &quot;editor&quot; becomes a project manager, pulling all these diverse elements together into a seamless magical whole.

The big publisher also regains control of the revenue stream not by trying to clamp down on the distribution of the ebook, but by controlling the central web server that functions as the hub for the entire multimedia experience.  Pirate it all you want, none of the enhanced features will work without the key into that server.  In fact, at that point, piracy really does work as free advertising, as readers become hungry for the full experience after the appetizer of just one aspect of the media.

Is that the way things will go?  Maybe.  Probably not.  There are way too many variables.  The economy is a variable.  The personalities involved in the industry is a variable.  The technology is a variable (don&#039;t think we&#039;ve seen all the changes the simple existence of the internet has to offer).  The impact of legal changes is a variable (will the UN find a way to institute and enforce global copyrights?).

Ultimately, this spat doesn&#039;t even count as a battle in the ongoing war.  It counts as a single shot in the battle over ebooks.  And, based on what we&#039;ve seen since, it wasn&#039;t even a shot that hit home.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, we are moving to a space where traditional publishers are the dinosaurs, and vanity presses are the mammals?</p>
<p>Ultimately, I don&#8217;t think we <em>can</em> predict the new business model.  Because ebooks are just a small symptom of the bigger picture.  The entire nature of media production, media distribution, and media consumption is changing.  This isn&#8217;t as simple as &#8220;now I can get books delivered over the intertubes.&#8221;  </p>
<p>One of the sea changes that I see the iPad heralding is the multimedia ebook.  You get an ebook that isn&#8217;t just the printed page scanned and delivered to your glass.  You get an ebook that also comes with a soundtrack, animated illustrations, direct links to an author&#8217;s site where he&#8217;s uploaded bits like his working character bible, etc.  Just like the special features on a DVD.</p>
<p>At that point, the big publisher gains a huge role in the process again.  Sure, if you just want to deliver text to your readers, you can put out a PDF for free on your site.  But, if you want a proper ebook, you need to engage the specialists who can put you in touch with experts in other media who will work with you.  The &#8220;editor&#8221; becomes a project manager, pulling all these diverse elements together into a seamless magical whole.</p>
<p>The big publisher also regains control of the revenue stream not by trying to clamp down on the distribution of the ebook, but by controlling the central web server that functions as the hub for the entire multimedia experience.  Pirate it all you want, none of the enhanced features will work without the key into that server.  In fact, at that point, piracy really does work as free advertising, as readers become hungry for the full experience after the appetizer of just one aspect of the media.</p>
<p>Is that the way things will go?  Maybe.  Probably not.  There are way too many variables.  The economy is a variable.  The personalities involved in the industry is a variable.  The technology is a variable (don&#8217;t think we&#8217;ve seen all the changes the simple existence of the internet has to offer).  The impact of legal changes is a variable (will the UN find a way to institute and enforce global copyrights?).</p>
<p>Ultimately, this spat doesn&#8217;t even count as a battle in the ongoing war.  It counts as a single shot in the battle over ebooks.  And, based on what we&#8217;ve seen since, it wasn&#8217;t even a shot that hit home.</p>
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		<title>By: d7</title>
		<link>http://www.deadlyfredly.com/2010/02/everyones-talking-about-it/comment-page-1/#comment-647</link>
		<dc:creator>d7</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Feb 2010 01:16:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deadlyfredly.com/?p=252#comment-647</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;The publishing world moves around authors like Dan Brown. Small unknown authors might be fun, but the Dan Browns of the world want millions of dollars.&lt;/i&gt;

The days of superstars driving the middlemen are waning, though. If the publishing world is suffering because they&#039;re not adapting their business models, they&#039;re not going to &lt;i&gt;have&lt;/i&gt; millions of dollars to offer to the Dan Browns, no matter how many millions the Dan Browns want.

Something will give. It will probably be a lot of small gives in a variety of places, including business models, old players being usurped by new players, and the Dan Browns becoming both fewer and somewhat poorer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>The publishing world moves around authors like Dan Brown. Small unknown authors might be fun, but the Dan Browns of the world want millions of dollars.</i></p>
<p>The days of superstars driving the middlemen are waning, though. If the publishing world is suffering because they&#8217;re not adapting their business models, they&#8217;re not going to <i>have</i> millions of dollars to offer to the Dan Browns, no matter how many millions the Dan Browns want.</p>
<p>Something will give. It will probably be a lot of small gives in a variety of places, including business models, old players being usurped by new players, and the Dan Browns becoming both fewer and somewhat poorer.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Curry</title>
		<link>http://www.deadlyfredly.com/2010/02/everyones-talking-about-it/comment-page-1/#comment-646</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Curry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Feb 2010 00:49:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deadlyfredly.com/?p=252#comment-646</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote cite=&quot;Raven Daegmorgan&quot;&gt;but because ebooks need to be cheaper (and there is no convincing economic reason why they shouldn’t be), and if Macmillan isn’t going to by choice…well, screw ‘em.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

The convincing economic reason would be that, at least for the major publishers, printing the bound volume is, by most accounts, only roughly 10% of the cost of creating a book.  Much of the cost instead comes from paying editors, book designers, marketing people, etc., and, of course, the writers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote cite="Raven Daegmorgan"><p>but because ebooks need to be cheaper (and there is no convincing economic reason why they shouldn’t be), and if Macmillan isn’t going to by choice…well, screw ‘em.</p></blockquote>
<p>The convincing economic reason would be that, at least for the major publishers, printing the bound volume is, by most accounts, only roughly 10% of the cost of creating a book.  Much of the cost instead comes from paying editors, book designers, marketing people, etc., and, of course, the writers.</p>
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		<title>By: Raven Daegmorgan</title>
		<link>http://www.deadlyfredly.com/2010/02/everyones-talking-about-it/comment-page-1/#comment-645</link>
		<dc:creator>Raven Daegmorgan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Feb 2010 22:34:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deadlyfredly.com/?p=252#comment-645</guid>
		<description>Oops, sorry: Which I admit is a huge thorny ball of rights-issues that don&#039;t delineate out neatly into clear camps of &quot;right&quot; and &quot;wrong&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oops, sorry: Which I admit is a huge thorny ball of rights-issues that don&#8217;t delineate out neatly into clear camps of &#8220;right&#8221; and &#8220;wrong&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Raven Daegmorgan</title>
		<link>http://www.deadlyfredly.com/2010/02/everyones-talking-about-it/comment-page-1/#comment-644</link>
		<dc:creator>Raven Daegmorgan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Feb 2010 22:26:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deadlyfredly.com/?p=252#comment-644</guid>
		<description>I was cheering on Amazon, not because I thought they had a right to set Macmillan&#039;s prices for them, but because ebooks need to be cheaper (and there is no convincing economic reason why they shouldn&#039;t be), and if Macmillan isn&#039;t going to by choice...well, screw &#039;em.

And also because if it is Macmillan&#039;s right to set their own prices, why isn&#039;t it Amazon&#039;s right to set their own discounts on those prices?

Which I ask because if the business model being assumed by both companies as well as the argument about rights holds, and since I&#039;m selling it FOR them because I&#039;m offering them the service of being included in my giant electronic display &amp; distribution network, then why can&#039;t I sell more cheaply than they want since they&#039;re using my service to get their books noticed and delivered?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was cheering on Amazon, not because I thought they had a right to set Macmillan&#8217;s prices for them, but because ebooks need to be cheaper (and there is no convincing economic reason why they shouldn&#8217;t be), and if Macmillan isn&#8217;t going to by choice&#8230;well, screw &#8216;em.</p>
<p>And also because if it is Macmillan&#8217;s right to set their own prices, why isn&#8217;t it Amazon&#8217;s right to set their own discounts on those prices?</p>
<p>Which I ask because if the business model being assumed by both companies as well as the argument about rights holds, and since I&#8217;m selling it FOR them because I&#8217;m offering them the service of being included in my giant electronic display &amp; distribution network, then why can&#8217;t I sell more cheaply than they want since they&#8217;re using my service to get their books noticed and delivered?</p>
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		<title>By: blue collar space &#8211; How Amazon and Apple stabbed me in the eye</title>
		<link>http://www.deadlyfredly.com/2010/02/everyones-talking-about-it/comment-page-1/#comment-643</link>
		<dc:creator>blue collar space &#8211; How Amazon and Apple stabbed me in the eye</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Feb 2010 20:51:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deadlyfredly.com/?p=252#comment-643</guid>
		<description>[...] Fred Hicks and Rob Donoghue have already weighed in. I don&#8217;t have anything new to add except possibly my opinion which I think is completely uninteresting. Facts will carry the day and this is clearly a skirmish in the war that will occupy the next several years in the publishing business. The expected (and apropos) analogy with dinosaurs and mammals has been made repeatedly. I believe I alluded to it myself last year sometime. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Fred Hicks and Rob Donoghue have already weighed in. I don&#8217;t have anything new to add except possibly my opinion which I think is completely uninteresting. Facts will carry the day and this is clearly a skirmish in the war that will occupy the next several years in the publishing business. The expected (and apropos) analogy with dinosaurs and mammals has been made repeatedly. I believe I alluded to it myself last year sometime. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Weinstein</title>
		<link>http://www.deadlyfredly.com/2010/02/everyones-talking-about-it/comment-page-1/#comment-642</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Weinstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Feb 2010 20:41:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deadlyfredly.com/?p=252#comment-642</guid>
		<description>Yep. 

If I request they purchase the book (as soon as the ISBN and other information are out), I&#039;m usually one of the first people in the Hold list, and will have it within a week of it coming out. If I miss that, I&#039;ll have it within a couple of weeks.

Even with my notable lack of patience, I can manage that to save $30.

Here is the thing.

I&#039;m a lifelong voracious reader. I have, by any reasonable standards, plenty of discretionary income.

And the fiction publishers have lost my business. When they started raising prices on fiction in the 1980s, for whatever reason, they thought they had an inelastic demand. They don&#039;t. 

I buy used fiction. 

I buy e-versions of fiction if I find the price reasonable. 

I make extensive use of my library system (which is superb).

But I no longer buy new hardbacks or paperbacks for fiction.

Cookbooks, yes. Reference books, sure. Fiction, no.

I still get to read what I want, I may just have to wait longer. Somehow, I think I&#039;m not the one losing in these calculations they are making regarding pricing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yep. </p>
<p>If I request they purchase the book (as soon as the ISBN and other information are out), I&#8217;m usually one of the first people in the Hold list, and will have it within a week of it coming out. If I miss that, I&#8217;ll have it within a couple of weeks.</p>
<p>Even with my notable lack of patience, I can manage that to save $30.</p>
<p>Here is the thing.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m a lifelong voracious reader. I have, by any reasonable standards, plenty of discretionary income.</p>
<p>And the fiction publishers have lost my business. When they started raising prices on fiction in the 1980s, for whatever reason, they thought they had an inelastic demand. They don&#8217;t. </p>
<p>I buy used fiction. </p>
<p>I buy e-versions of fiction if I find the price reasonable. </p>
<p>I make extensive use of my library system (which is superb).</p>
<p>But I no longer buy new hardbacks or paperbacks for fiction.</p>
<p>Cookbooks, yes. Reference books, sure. Fiction, no.</p>
<p>I still get to read what I want, I may just have to wait longer. Somehow, I think I&#8217;m not the one losing in these calculations they are making regarding pricing.</p>
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		<title>By: Fred Hicks</title>
		<link>http://www.deadlyfredly.com/2010/02/everyones-talking-about-it/comment-page-1/#comment-641</link>
		<dc:creator>Fred Hicks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Feb 2010 20:33:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deadlyfredly.com/?p=252#comment-641</guid>
		<description>Your library is as speedy as a couple days? You&#039;re very lucky. I&#039;ve encountered plenty of reports of folks waiting months -- sometimes due to the library&#039;s ability to supply, sometimes because every copy they have gets checked out instantly and there&#039;s a long line of folks waiting for it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your library is as speedy as a couple days? You&#8217;re very lucky. I&#8217;ve encountered plenty of reports of folks waiting months &#8212; sometimes due to the library&#8217;s ability to supply, sometimes because every copy they have gets checked out instantly and there&#8217;s a long line of folks waiting for it.</p>
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		<title>By: Fred Hicks</title>
		<link>http://www.deadlyfredly.com/2010/02/everyones-talking-about-it/comment-page-1/#comment-640</link>
		<dc:creator>Fred Hicks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Feb 2010 20:32:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deadlyfredly.com/?p=252#comment-640</guid>
		<description>However you care to run the semantics of it is fine by me. The point being that the old paradigm is getting flipped.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>However you care to run the semantics of it is fine by me. The point being that the old paradigm is getting flipped.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Weinstein</title>
		<link>http://www.deadlyfredly.com/2010/02/everyones-talking-about-it/comment-page-1/#comment-639</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Weinstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Feb 2010 20:30:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deadlyfredly.com/?p=252#comment-639</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;If you feel you MUST get your hands on “Changes” by Jim Butcher the first day it’s available, in an eBookless world you’d be spending that hardcover price, period, or you’d have to sit on your thumbs and wait a year for the paperback. It’s as simple as that.&lt;/i&gt;

Or, if I can wait a couple of days, I get it at the library, and pay nothing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>If you feel you MUST get your hands on “Changes” by Jim Butcher the first day it’s available, in an eBookless world you’d be spending that hardcover price, period, or you’d have to sit on your thumbs and wait a year for the paperback. It’s as simple as that.</i></p>
<p>Or, if I can wait a couple of days, I get it at the library, and pay nothing.</p>
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		<title>By: John Powell</title>
		<link>http://www.deadlyfredly.com/2010/02/everyones-talking-about-it/comment-page-1/#comment-638</link>
		<dc:creator>John Powell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Feb 2010 20:21:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deadlyfredly.com/?p=252#comment-638</guid>
		<description>If you&#039;re going to all calm and rational about this shit, your readership is bound to drop! ;)

Thanks again!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you&#8217;re going to all calm and rational about this shit, your readership is bound to drop! <img src='http://www.deadlyfredly.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Thanks again!</p>
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		<title>By: Reverance Pavane</title>
		<link>http://www.deadlyfredly.com/2010/02/everyones-talking-about-it/comment-page-1/#comment-637</link>
		<dc:creator>Reverance Pavane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Feb 2010 19:41:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deadlyfredly.com/?p=252#comment-637</guid>
		<description>Agreed.  My apologies.

Then again, I will definitely admit in this particular argument, the shackles Amazon was attempting to lay were much larger and weightier than the publisher was attempting to lay.  Especially their offer to authors for 70% of the net, which had the added clause that &lt;i&gt;they&lt;/i&gt; set the price and thus the royalty the author receives, which is well, detestable, to say the least.

&lt;i&gt;I should add the disclaimer that I never use Amazon as a consumer because of it&#039;s predatory policies on content providers.*  Besides there are lots better deals out there. [Here in Oz we have www.booko.com.au to do internet searches for best price; hopefully you have something just as good rather than relying on an Amazon search.]  And as far as I&#039;m concerned any DRM makes an ebook unsaleable to me. [I do like the Webscription scheme from Baen however, which is how I&#039;d like to see an ebook scheme run.  Although I do think that authors should get a larger cut of the royalty pie for ebooks than they apparently do.]&lt;/i&gt;

&lt;i&gt;[* We had a similar situation here in Oz not that long ago, where the largest book chain [A&amp;R] sent letters to the local small press saying that they would have to pay if they wanted shelf space in the store.  There was considerable public outcry and people stopped using A&amp;R
(much to the concern of many of the franchisees who actually had no part of the decision), resulting in the collapse of the central chain-owned stores.  But we had other book stores to go to. ]&lt;/i&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agreed.  My apologies.</p>
<p>Then again, I will definitely admit in this particular argument, the shackles Amazon was attempting to lay were much larger and weightier than the publisher was attempting to lay.  Especially their offer to authors for 70% of the net, which had the added clause that <i>they</i> set the price and thus the royalty the author receives, which is well, detestable, to say the least.</p>
<p><i>I should add the disclaimer that I never use Amazon as a consumer because of it&#8217;s predatory policies on content providers.*  Besides there are lots better deals out there. [Here in Oz we have <a href="http://www.booko.com.au" rel="nofollow">http://www.booko.com.au</a> to do internet searches for best price; hopefully you have something just as good rather than relying on an Amazon search.]  And as far as I&#8217;m concerned any DRM makes an ebook unsaleable to me. [I do like the Webscription scheme from Baen however, which is how I'd like to see an ebook scheme run.  Although I do think that authors should get a larger cut of the royalty pie for ebooks than they apparently do.]</i></p>
<p><i>[* We had a similar situation here in Oz not that long ago, where the largest book chain [A&amp;R] sent letters to the local small press saying that they would have to pay if they wanted shelf space in the store.  There was considerable public outcry and people stopped using A&amp;R<br />
(much to the concern of many of the franchisees who actually had no part of the decision), resulting in the collapse of the central chain-owned stores.  But we had other book stores to go to. ]</i></p>
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		<title>By: Josh Jasper</title>
		<link>http://www.deadlyfredly.com/2010/02/everyones-talking-about-it/comment-page-1/#comment-636</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh Jasper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Feb 2010 19:31:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deadlyfredly.com/?p=252#comment-636</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;I’m going to be real interested to see what if any independent eBook marketplaces open up, ones oriented on getting good content from “unknown” authors available to voracious readers at a cheap and DRM-free pricepoint. &lt;/i&gt;

Yeah, except in a lot of ways, that&#039;s fun but unimportant.  The publishing world moves around authors like Dan Brown.  Small unknown authors might be fun, but the Dan Browns of the world want millions of dollars.  

Oh, and  Nightshade Press is a good example of a small press working hard to put out ebooks.   Windup Girl, which is one of his hot new titles, can be had on Baen&#039;s Webscription page for $6.00.  That&#039;s not bad, and John Scalzi&#039;s Zoe&#039;s Tale (A Macmillan book, through Tor) can be had at B&amp;N for $6.39.  These are both popular titles.  They&#039;re not HC releases, and they&#039;re not catering to a ravening fan base like the expensive list price on the Wheel of Time books that are cheaper to by in MMPB.

All in all, Macmillan is being quite demanding in it&#039;s new plan, but the price point setting is designed to work on a revenue share model, not the way physical books are sold.  If you&#039;re selling a download through a reseller like amazon, you have reason to want to set the price at the point of sale, which is different than if you&#039;re selling a physical book, where you really shouldn&#039;t mess around too much with the end sale price.

At this level, it&#039;s not as much a question of who&#039;s &quot;in the right&quot; in the dispute, though.  What the problem came out of was Amazon pulling all of Macmillan&#039;s print books as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I’m going to be real interested to see what if any independent eBook marketplaces open up, ones oriented on getting good content from “unknown” authors available to voracious readers at a cheap and DRM-free pricepoint. </i></p>
<p>Yeah, except in a lot of ways, that&#8217;s fun but unimportant.  The publishing world moves around authors like Dan Brown.  Small unknown authors might be fun, but the Dan Browns of the world want millions of dollars.  </p>
<p>Oh, and  Nightshade Press is a good example of a small press working hard to put out ebooks.   Windup Girl, which is one of his hot new titles, can be had on Baen&#8217;s Webscription page for $6.00.  That&#8217;s not bad, and John Scalzi&#8217;s Zoe&#8217;s Tale (A Macmillan book, through Tor) can be had at B&amp;N for $6.39.  These are both popular titles.  They&#8217;re not HC releases, and they&#8217;re not catering to a ravening fan base like the expensive list price on the Wheel of Time books that are cheaper to by in MMPB.</p>
<p>All in all, Macmillan is being quite demanding in it&#8217;s new plan, but the price point setting is designed to work on a revenue share model, not the way physical books are sold.  If you&#8217;re selling a download through a reseller like amazon, you have reason to want to set the price at the point of sale, which is different than if you&#8217;re selling a physical book, where you really shouldn&#8217;t mess around too much with the end sale price.</p>
<p>At this level, it&#8217;s not as much a question of who&#8217;s &#8220;in the right&#8221; in the dispute, though.  What the problem came out of was Amazon pulling all of Macmillan&#8217;s print books as well.</p>
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		<title>By: Chad Underkoffler</title>
		<link>http://www.deadlyfredly.com/2010/02/everyones-talking-about-it/comment-page-1/#comment-635</link>
		<dc:creator>Chad Underkoffler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Feb 2010 19:25:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deadlyfredly.com/?p=252#comment-635</guid>
		<description>&quot;But I wouldn’t be surprised if Chad thinks of it in terms of &#039;partnership&#039; anyway.&quot;

Beat me to it, Tim.

The reason I see it mostly as such is that I&#039;m not happy with either the old school or new school dichotomy -- I think the situation is more complex than that. (That being said... I lean more new school.)

Then again, even when I have handled the business-end of Atomic Sock Monkey stuff, I&#039;ve often dealt highly-involved folks in for a cut (and then, eventually, when that cut dwindles, have &quot;bought back&quot; the cut).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;But I wouldn’t be surprised if Chad thinks of it in terms of &#8216;partnership&#8217; anyway.&#8221;</p>
<p>Beat me to it, Tim.</p>
<p>The reason I see it mostly as such is that I&#8217;m not happy with either the old school or new school dichotomy &#8212; I think the situation is more complex than that. (That being said&#8230; I lean more new school.)</p>
<p>Then again, even when I have handled the business-end of Atomic Sock Monkey stuff, I&#8217;ve often dealt highly-involved folks in for a cut (and then, eventually, when that cut dwindles, have &#8220;bought back&#8221; the cut).</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Gray</title>
		<link>http://www.deadlyfredly.com/2010/02/everyones-talking-about-it/comment-page-1/#comment-634</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Gray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Feb 2010 19:17:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deadlyfredly.com/?p=252#comment-634</guid>
		<description>Haven&#039;t read all the thread, but spotted this while scrolling rapidly:

&quot;New school says that Evil Hat is Chad’s client — he created his content, figured out what services he wanted us to provide, and we provided them for an agreed-upon price.&quot;

Eh? If you&#039;re providing a service to Chad for a price, *he&#039;s* the client.

But I wouldn&#039;t be surprised if Chad thinks of it in terms of &quot;partnership&quot; anyway.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Haven&#8217;t read all the thread, but spotted this while scrolling rapidly:</p>
<p>&#8220;New school says that Evil Hat is Chad’s client — he created his content, figured out what services he wanted us to provide, and we provided them for an agreed-upon price.&#8221;</p>
<p>Eh? If you&#8217;re providing a service to Chad for a price, *he&#8217;s* the client.</p>
<p>But I wouldn&#8217;t be surprised if Chad thinks of it in terms of &#8220;partnership&#8221; anyway.</p>
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		<title>By: Fred Hicks</title>
		<link>http://www.deadlyfredly.com/2010/02/everyones-talking-about-it/comment-page-1/#comment-633</link>
		<dc:creator>Fred Hicks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Feb 2010 19:02:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deadlyfredly.com/?p=252#comment-633</guid>
		<description>Eh. I see no problem with my statement, in that it is not actually in any sort of conflict with what you have to say.  I think publishers should be free to set a price.  

I did not say publishers should be free to lay shackles on the sellers of their products.  Though even there, I&#039;m of a mixed perspective.  IPR, for example, reserves the right to stop selling books to any retailer that sells a title we&#039;ve sold them at a deep discount online. (They can deep discount in their brick &amp; mortar store if they like; the online, directly competing with IPR is the problem.) And I don&#039;t see a problem with that. As the owner of a particular chunk of content you should be free to define the conditions under which you will sell the product to someone, I think.

Of course what I&#039;m saying is due to change is who will be perceived as the owner of that content.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eh. I see no problem with my statement, in that it is not actually in any sort of conflict with what you have to say.  I think publishers should be free to set a price.  </p>
<p>I did not say publishers should be free to lay shackles on the sellers of their products.  Though even there, I&#8217;m of a mixed perspective.  IPR, for example, reserves the right to stop selling books to any retailer that sells a title we&#8217;ve sold them at a deep discount online. (They can deep discount in their brick &#038; mortar store if they like; the online, directly competing with IPR is the problem.) And I don&#8217;t see a problem with that. As the owner of a particular chunk of content you should be free to define the conditions under which you will sell the product to someone, I think.</p>
<p>Of course what I&#8217;m saying is due to change is who will be perceived as the owner of that content.</p>
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		<title>By: Reverance Pavane</title>
		<link>http://www.deadlyfredly.com/2010/02/everyones-talking-about-it/comment-page-1/#comment-632</link>
		<dc:creator>Reverance Pavane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Feb 2010 18:48:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deadlyfredly.com/?p=252#comment-632</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;But I think Macmillan is right, too, in that the publishers should be free to set their prices.&lt;/i&gt;

The problem with this statement is that Macmillian is not setting the &lt;i&gt;recommended&lt;/i&gt; retail price of their product, but rather the &lt;i&gt;actual&lt;/i&gt; retail price.  Under the new agreement Amazon &lt;i&gt;cannot&lt;/i&gt; offer the book at a discount without being in violation of the agreement.

This is a restriction which no other retailer is under.  Admittedly it would probably save local and even chain bookstores against their supermarket competitors (who can afford to use best-sellers as loss leaders to get people into the store, if they extended this restriction to their physical product as well), but I imagine the restraint of trade law suites would make Amazon&#039;s little tizzy look like the storm in a teacup it really is.

YMMV.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>But I think Macmillan is right, too, in that the publishers should be free to set their prices.</i></p>
<p>The problem with this statement is that Macmillian is not setting the <i>recommended</i> retail price of their product, but rather the <i>actual</i> retail price.  Under the new agreement Amazon <i>cannot</i> offer the book at a discount without being in violation of the agreement.</p>
<p>This is a restriction which no other retailer is under.  Admittedly it would probably save local and even chain bookstores against their supermarket competitors (who can afford to use best-sellers as loss leaders to get people into the store, if they extended this restriction to their physical product as well), but I imagine the restraint of trade law suites would make Amazon&#8217;s little tizzy look like the storm in a teacup it really is.</p>
<p>YMMV.</p>
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		<title>By: Rob Donoghue</title>
		<link>http://www.deadlyfredly.com/2010/02/everyones-talking-about-it/comment-page-1/#comment-631</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob Donoghue</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Feb 2010 18:35:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deadlyfredly.com/?p=252#comment-631</guid>
		<description>The thing this highlights for me is the question that&#039;s been niggling at my mind: What to publishers contribute to the process now? In the past? In the future?

The past is easy. Publishers brought money, expertise, editors, marketing and a way into stores, plus of course the actual production of books.

But nowadays they seem to be offering less expertise and support. Authors are left to self-promote more and more these days, and I&#039;ve heard tell of editing responsibilities being pushed off on the the author as well.  They&#039;re not totally out of the game - there&#039;s still cover art and such - but that leaves money, getting books into stores, and production.

The problem is those last two are looking kind of fragile.  Bookstores aren&#039;t doing great, and outside of brick and mortar, the barriers for entry are much lower for the small press.  Ebooks are, of course, a big threat to the production monopoly as well (though that won&#039;t go away totally - actual books still have plenty of market).  That just leaves financing, and while I&#039;ll concede that&#039;s important,  I&#039;m not sure that&#039;s the only possible source of it.

Now, this is a gross simplification - I haven&#039;t even touched on things like brand and the virtues of culling the slush pile - and the things I see as problems won&#039;t really materialize for years. But I can see them on the horizon, and I doubt I&#039;m the only one. 

-Rob D.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The thing this highlights for me is the question that&#8217;s been niggling at my mind: What to publishers contribute to the process now? In the past? In the future?</p>
<p>The past is easy. Publishers brought money, expertise, editors, marketing and a way into stores, plus of course the actual production of books.</p>
<p>But nowadays they seem to be offering less expertise and support. Authors are left to self-promote more and more these days, and I&#8217;ve heard tell of editing responsibilities being pushed off on the the author as well.  They&#8217;re not totally out of the game &#8211; there&#8217;s still cover art and such &#8211; but that leaves money, getting books into stores, and production.</p>
<p>The problem is those last two are looking kind of fragile.  Bookstores aren&#8217;t doing great, and outside of brick and mortar, the barriers for entry are much lower for the small press.  Ebooks are, of course, a big threat to the production monopoly as well (though that won&#8217;t go away totally &#8211; actual books still have plenty of market).  That just leaves financing, and while I&#8217;ll concede that&#8217;s important,  I&#8217;m not sure that&#8217;s the only possible source of it.</p>
<p>Now, this is a gross simplification &#8211; I haven&#8217;t even touched on things like brand and the virtues of culling the slush pile &#8211; and the things I see as problems won&#8217;t really materialize for years. But I can see them on the horizon, and I doubt I&#8217;m the only one. </p>
<p>-Rob D.</p>
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