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	<title>Comments on: PDF, Print, Pricing</title>
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	<link>http://www.deadlyfredly.com/2009/12/pdf-print-pricing/</link>
	<description>Gaming. Publishing. Media. Food. Fatherhood.</description>
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		<title>By: 24 February 2010: Winter games and retro-clones &#124; Gene&#039;s Worlds</title>
		<link>http://www.deadlyfredly.com/2009/12/pdf-print-pricing/comment-page-1/#comment-3246</link>
		<dc:creator>24 February 2010: Winter games and retro-clones &#124; Gene&#039;s Worlds</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Aug 2011 19:23:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deadlyfredly.com/?p=181#comment-3246</guid>
		<description>[...] Game License has been replaced by economic recession, a move from print to online publishing of PDFs, and fragmentation of the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Game License has been replaced by economic recession, a move from print to online publishing of PDFs, and fragmentation of the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Happy Bishop Games &#187; Triune prices set</title>
		<link>http://www.deadlyfredly.com/2009/12/pdf-print-pricing/comment-page-1/#comment-2534</link>
		<dc:creator>Happy Bishop Games &#187; Triune prices set</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 May 2011 18:12:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deadlyfredly.com/?p=181#comment-2534</guid>
		<description>[...] to people like Fred Hicks and Ed Healy, we have set our prices for the upcoming release of the Triune [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] to people like Fred Hicks and Ed Healy, we have set our prices for the upcoming release of the Triune [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Reassessing PDF Pricing for RPGs</title>
		<link>http://www.deadlyfredly.com/2009/12/pdf-print-pricing/comment-page-1/#comment-1154</link>
		<dc:creator>Reassessing PDF Pricing for RPGs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Oct 2010 13:38:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deadlyfredly.com/?p=181#comment-1154</guid>
		<description>[...] December, Fred Hicks posted “PDF, Print, Pricing,&#8221; in which he points to me as [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] December, Fred Hicks posted “PDF, Print, Pricing,&#8221; in which he points to me as [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Critical Hits &#187; Critical Bits for the week ending 2009-12-26</title>
		<link>http://www.deadlyfredly.com/2009/12/pdf-print-pricing/comment-page-1/#comment-437</link>
		<dc:creator>Critical Hits &#187; Critical Bits for the week ending 2009-12-26</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Jan 2010 03:19:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deadlyfredly.com/?p=181#comment-437</guid>
		<description>[...] @fredhicks: New on Deadly Fredly: PDF, Print, Pricing http://www.deadlyfredly.com/2009/12/pdf-print-pricing/ [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] @fredhicks: New on Deadly Fredly: PDF, Print, Pricing <a href="http://www.deadlyfredly.com/2009/12/pdf-print-pricing/" rel="nofollow">http://www.deadlyfredly.com/2009/12/pdf-print-pricing/</a> [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Critical Bits for the week ending 2009-12-26 : Critical Hits</title>
		<link>http://www.deadlyfredly.com/2009/12/pdf-print-pricing/comment-page-1/#comment-433</link>
		<dc:creator>Critical Bits for the week ending 2009-12-26 : Critical Hits</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Jan 2010 00:26:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deadlyfredly.com/?p=181#comment-433</guid>
		<description>[...] @fredhicks: New on Deadly Fredly: PDF, Print, Pricing http://www.deadlyfredly.com/2009/12/pdf-print-pricing/ [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] @fredhicks: New on Deadly Fredly: PDF, Print, Pricing <a href="http://www.deadlyfredly.com/2009/12/pdf-print-pricing/" rel="nofollow">http://www.deadlyfredly.com/2009/12/pdf-print-pricing/</a> [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Fred Hicks</title>
		<link>http://www.deadlyfredly.com/2009/12/pdf-print-pricing/comment-page-1/#comment-334</link>
		<dc:creator>Fred Hicks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Dec 2009 01:42:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deadlyfredly.com/?p=181#comment-334</guid>
		<description>I think my exhortation to consider OBS stands, since the number of developed-for-decades brands out there that your example applies to is vanishingly small. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think my exhortation to consider OBS stands, since the number of developed-for-decades brands out there that your example applies to is vanishingly small. <img src='http://www.deadlyfredly.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Paul Chapman</title>
		<link>http://www.deadlyfredly.com/2009/12/pdf-print-pricing/comment-page-1/#comment-322</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Chapman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Dec 2009 18:28:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deadlyfredly.com/?p=181#comment-322</guid>
		<description>&quot;If you’re selling PDFs you absolutely need to be on OneBookshelf...&quot;

Unless your brand is strong enough to go solo, of course. I&#039;m fairly certain keeping e23 as the exclusive source of GURPS PDFs has increased sales overall. A release that doesn&#039;t have to compete with dozens of others for eyes is a release that&#039;s going to be picked up more often on impulse.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;If you’re selling PDFs you absolutely need to be on OneBookshelf&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>Unless your brand is strong enough to go solo, of course. I&#8217;m fairly certain keeping e23 as the exclusive source of GURPS PDFs has increased sales overall. A release that doesn&#8217;t have to compete with dozens of others for eyes is a release that&#8217;s going to be picked up more often on impulse.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Weinstein</title>
		<link>http://www.deadlyfredly.com/2009/12/pdf-print-pricing/comment-page-1/#comment-316</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Weinstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Dec 2009 05:59:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deadlyfredly.com/?p=181#comment-316</guid>
		<description>Generally, if I want the game, I want it in both PDF and Print.

If I only want the PDF, that means it is either only available as PDF, or the PDF was in the &quot;impulse buy&quot; range ($10 or less).

The combination of &quot;PDF now, print copy when it gets back from the printer and we ship it&quot; is pretty much laser focused at my weakness for both the new and shiny and instant gratification. 

As a side note, however, &quot;PDF now, print copy later&quot; as a limited time offer means that I either pre-order, or I likely don&#039;t buy the product at all. Because once the lizard brain knows that once upon a time you could get both for the same price, but now you can&#039;t, the lizard brain gets cranky and goes back to sulk on the rock.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Generally, if I want the game, I want it in both PDF and Print.</p>
<p>If I only want the PDF, that means it is either only available as PDF, or the PDF was in the &#8220;impulse buy&#8221; range ($10 or less).</p>
<p>The combination of &#8220;PDF now, print copy when it gets back from the printer and we ship it&#8221; is pretty much laser focused at my weakness for both the new and shiny and instant gratification. </p>
<p>As a side note, however, &#8220;PDF now, print copy later&#8221; as a limited time offer means that I either pre-order, or I likely don&#8217;t buy the product at all. Because once the lizard brain knows that once upon a time you could get both for the same price, but now you can&#8217;t, the lizard brain gets cranky and goes back to sulk on the rock.</p>
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		<title>By: Lon Sarver</title>
		<link>http://www.deadlyfredly.com/2009/12/pdf-print-pricing/comment-page-1/#comment-314</link>
		<dc:creator>Lon Sarver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Dec 2009 04:10:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deadlyfredly.com/?p=181#comment-314</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m conflicted, really.  I understand the argument in favor of charging what the market will bear, and and I certainly want to see the creators make money and be encouraged to make more gaming goodness.

On the other hand... $35 for a pdf?  I&#039;m going to pass, for reasons that are mostly personal.  I&#039;d by buying Doctor Who mostly as a Who fanboy, rather than as a gamer (I don&#039;t know anyone who&#039;d want to play it, first off).  I prefer my games with more hippie story game flavor and less crunch.  All these things put the DW RPG on the &quot;I&#039;ll do without until I have $40 0r $60 I have absolutely nothing else to do with.&quot;

I guess it comes down to a personal cost/benefit.  I could run Doctor Who using just my own internal fanboy encyclopedia and the FATE rules, so I&#039;m less inclined to pay more for a product I don&#039;t actually &lt;i&gt;need&lt;/i&gt;.

Which isn&#039;t to say I won&#039;t buy it.  The price has just dropped it to the bottom of the list.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m conflicted, really.  I understand the argument in favor of charging what the market will bear, and and I certainly want to see the creators make money and be encouraged to make more gaming goodness.</p>
<p>On the other hand&#8230; $35 for a pdf?  I&#8217;m going to pass, for reasons that are mostly personal.  I&#8217;d by buying Doctor Who mostly as a Who fanboy, rather than as a gamer (I don&#8217;t know anyone who&#8217;d want to play it, first off).  I prefer my games with more hippie story game flavor and less crunch.  All these things put the DW RPG on the &#8220;I&#8217;ll do without until I have $40 0r $60 I have absolutely nothing else to do with.&#8221;</p>
<p>I guess it comes down to a personal cost/benefit.  I could run Doctor Who using just my own internal fanboy encyclopedia and the FATE rules, so I&#8217;m less inclined to pay more for a product I don&#8217;t actually <i>need</i>.</p>
<p>Which isn&#8217;t to say I won&#8217;t buy it.  The price has just dropped it to the bottom of the list.</p>
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		<title>By: Reverance Pavane</title>
		<link>http://www.deadlyfredly.com/2009/12/pdf-print-pricing/comment-page-1/#comment-313</link>
		<dc:creator>Reverance Pavane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Dec 2009 00:29:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deadlyfredly.com/?p=181#comment-313</guid>
		<description>Another question that has to be asked is what is the value of the product in question.

For us gamers, the answer is obviously the content which is of value.  This is really the reason most of us buy the games (although I have bought games for the mere fact that they are beautiful works of art in their own right, even if the content (in game terms) is pretty pathetic).

But for non-gamers (such as my heirs and assigns), what is the actual value of the product.  My physical games library they will be able to (easily I predict) unload on eBay, but what about the PDFs?  What is the resale value of a PDF, especially one that has someone else&#039;s name emblazoned on the bottom, and where having it in public might get one accused of supporting piracy?*  And what would happen when they start selling them off?  How will the publishers react when they start selling my PDFs?  And isn&#039;t the resale value of an object a good indication of it&#039;s actual worth?  Physical objects can increase in value.  PDFs only lose value. [Sometimes I think pricing models more appropriate to computer games are better models for their value, although there is an innate double depreciation there).

* And yes, one does get mildly gruntled when the name on the legally purchased PDF doesn&#039;t match your name, even if no one has accused you of piracy (as yet). [=9)]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another question that has to be asked is what is the value of the product in question.</p>
<p>For us gamers, the answer is obviously the content which is of value.  This is really the reason most of us buy the games (although I have bought games for the mere fact that they are beautiful works of art in their own right, even if the content (in game terms) is pretty pathetic).</p>
<p>But for non-gamers (such as my heirs and assigns), what is the actual value of the product.  My physical games library they will be able to (easily I predict) unload on eBay, but what about the PDFs?  What is the resale value of a PDF, especially one that has someone else&#8217;s name emblazoned on the bottom, and where having it in public might get one accused of supporting piracy?*  And what would happen when they start selling them off?  How will the publishers react when they start selling my PDFs?  And isn&#8217;t the resale value of an object a good indication of it&#8217;s actual worth?  Physical objects can increase in value.  PDFs only lose value. [Sometimes I think pricing models more appropriate to computer games are better models for their value, although there is an innate double depreciation there).</p>
<p>* And yes, one does get mildly gruntled when the name on the legally purchased PDF doesn't match your name, even if no one has accused you of piracy (as yet). [=9)]</p>
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		<title>By: MikeRM</title>
		<link>http://www.deadlyfredly.com/2009/12/pdf-print-pricing/comment-page-1/#comment-311</link>
		<dc:creator>MikeRM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Dec 2009 00:23:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deadlyfredly.com/?p=181#comment-311</guid>
		<description>I should add, of course, that for a fiction ebook, layout and art are usually not the factors that they are for a game PDF. If you buy an ebook of my novel from Smashwords (in any of multiple formats including PDF), you are getting just the words with, effectively, no designed layout, which makes considering it a &quot;content only&quot; purchase much more reasonable.

On the other hand, as Reverance just said, game PDFs are often just the print file, which means they are not optimized for screen reading. You could argue that this actually makes them &lt;b&gt;less&lt;/b&gt; valuable, in that the format you get them in is not well served by their design.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I should add, of course, that for a fiction ebook, layout and art are usually not the factors that they are for a game PDF. If you buy an ebook of my novel from Smashwords (in any of multiple formats including PDF), you are getting just the words with, effectively, no designed layout, which makes considering it a &#8220;content only&#8221; purchase much more reasonable.</p>
<p>On the other hand, as Reverance just said, game PDFs are often just the print file, which means they are not optimized for screen reading. You could argue that this actually makes them <b>less</b> valuable, in that the format you get them in is not well served by their design.</p>
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		<title>By: Reverance Pavane</title>
		<link>http://www.deadlyfredly.com/2009/12/pdf-print-pricing/comment-page-1/#comment-310</link>
		<dc:creator>Reverance Pavane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Dec 2009 00:12:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deadlyfredly.com/?p=181#comment-310</guid>
		<description>There are three main reasons for me to buy a PDF

(1) In my situation PDFs are invaluable advertising for me.  In the absence of a FLGS they allow me to look at a product and decide whether I also want the physical product.  This is particularly true in the so-called Indie market.  Mostly this is because when you add in freight I either have the opportunity to pay 200% for a product sight unseen, or $250% of something I might actually use (instead of 100%/150%).  Which makes me even more sensitive to price-point policy on PDF. Although the flip side of this is if I don&#039;t like your PDF, you are only getting 50% of the price (which you probably wouldn&#039;t have gotten any other way in this case).  [@MikeRM &#150; I wish more people would use your scheme for this very reason.]

(2) I also pick up PDFs of games that I will never get around to play, if they are cheap enough (I&#039;m definitely an aforementioned  value shopper at OBS &lt;i&gt;&lt;grin&gt;&lt;/i&gt;).  This is a sale you (the game publisher) would have never gotten otherwise, and sometimes the product has been worth investing in a physical copy as well, or convinced me to keep an eye out on further products in that line.

(3) And there are the rare games that I buy the PDF after I&#039;ve bought the physical game because I can disassemble it into a coherent rules document for my own use.  Often this is a necessity  as, even with a searchable PDF, load times can be atrocious on an underpowered netbook. [Generally a side effect of drawing the PDF directly from the print copy rather then providing a specialised version.] But it&#039;s also very useful if you mod the rules extensively (as I do), or the game is split over a large number of supplements and expansions (I did the same thing with a manual typewriter back in 1977 for A Certain Game&#8482;).

One thing that strikes me looking at these reasons is I really don&#039;t view the PDF as the product produced by the game company.  At best it is a tool or adjunct to the product, and there is an innate sense that it should be priced accordingly.   A PDF will never replace a book, simply because it is an electronic book, and suffers the disadvantages of both, with little corresponding advantage.  I think that dedicated tool will be something designed exclusively for electronic media (hyperlinked, searchable, and innately expandable).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are three main reasons for me to buy a PDF</p>
<p>(1) In my situation PDFs are invaluable advertising for me.  In the absence of a FLGS they allow me to look at a product and decide whether I also want the physical product.  This is particularly true in the so-called Indie market.  Mostly this is because when you add in freight I either have the opportunity to pay 200% for a product sight unseen, or $250% of something I might actually use (instead of 100%/150%).  Which makes me even more sensitive to price-point policy on PDF. Although the flip side of this is if I don&#8217;t like your PDF, you are only getting 50% of the price (which you probably wouldn&#8217;t have gotten any other way in this case).  [@MikeRM &#8211; I wish more people would use your scheme for this very reason.]</p>
<p>(2) I also pick up PDFs of games that I will never get around to play, if they are cheap enough (I&#8217;m definitely an aforementioned  value shopper at OBS <i>&lt;grin&gt;</i>).  This is a sale you (the game publisher) would have never gotten otherwise, and sometimes the product has been worth investing in a physical copy as well, or convinced me to keep an eye out on further products in that line.</p>
<p>(3) And there are the rare games that I buy the PDF after I&#8217;ve bought the physical game because I can disassemble it into a coherent rules document for my own use.  Often this is a necessity  as, even with a searchable PDF, load times can be atrocious on an underpowered netbook. [Generally a side effect of drawing the PDF directly from the print copy rather then providing a specialised version.] But it&#8217;s also very useful if you mod the rules extensively (as I do), or the game is split over a large number of supplements and expansions (I did the same thing with a manual typewriter back in 1977 for A Certain Game&trade;).</p>
<p>One thing that strikes me looking at these reasons is I really don&#8217;t view the PDF as the product produced by the game company.  At best it is a tool or adjunct to the product, and there is an innate sense that it should be priced accordingly.   A PDF will never replace a book, simply because it is an electronic book, and suffers the disadvantages of both, with little corresponding advantage.  I think that dedicated tool will be something designed exclusively for electronic media (hyperlinked, searchable, and innately expandable).</p>
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		<title>By: Raven Daegmorgan</title>
		<link>http://www.deadlyfredly.com/2009/12/pdf-print-pricing/comment-page-1/#comment-309</link>
		<dc:creator>Raven Daegmorgan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Dec 2009 23:55:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deadlyfredly.com/?p=181#comment-309</guid>
		<description>Yes, quite true (though I also bet any of the three of us wouldn&#039;t have much difficulty making arguments either way). But regardless of the actual costs to the company, speaking from a &lt;i&gt;consumer POV&lt;/i&gt;, that isn&#039;t the perception.

That is: it FEELS like you&#039;re paying for materials and shipping and warehousing and other costs that aren&#039;t a factor electronically, whether or not you are. (At least that&#039;s the way it feels to me, maybe I&#039;m odd.) I do think &quot;how it feels&quot; (perceived value) is a pretty significant factor in pricing for consumers.

So if some folks are getting value out of 70%-electronic, well, cool. I can&#039;t see that for myself. I&#039;m good with $5-$10 for a PDF, and once we start inching above that price-point, my fingers start pausing a longer-and-longer time before hitting &quot;Buy&quot; (if they ever do), because I start thinking &quot;I could just order the physical product and get a better value.&quot;

In fact, I find it really interesting that consumers are willing to pay that much for a PDF (regarding the Doctor Who product). I&#039;m wondering how much of that has to do with the currently limited availability of the game Stateside, and how much those PDF sales numbers will decrease after it is more widely available as a physical product here?* The two things may have nothing to do with each other, but I still wonder.

(*For example, is there a culturally perceived value in reading/having/playing the game early?)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, quite true (though I also bet any of the three of us wouldn&#8217;t have much difficulty making arguments either way). But regardless of the actual costs to the company, speaking from a <i>consumer POV</i>, that isn&#8217;t the perception.</p>
<p>That is: it FEELS like you&#8217;re paying for materials and shipping and warehousing and other costs that aren&#8217;t a factor electronically, whether or not you are. (At least that&#8217;s the way it feels to me, maybe I&#8217;m odd.) I do think &#8220;how it feels&#8221; (perceived value) is a pretty significant factor in pricing for consumers.</p>
<p>So if some folks are getting value out of 70%-electronic, well, cool. I can&#8217;t see that for myself. I&#8217;m good with $5-$10 for a PDF, and once we start inching above that price-point, my fingers start pausing a longer-and-longer time before hitting &#8220;Buy&#8221; (if they ever do), because I start thinking &#8220;I could just order the physical product and get a better value.&#8221;</p>
<p>In fact, I find it really interesting that consumers are willing to pay that much for a PDF (regarding the Doctor Who product). I&#8217;m wondering how much of that has to do with the currently limited availability of the game Stateside, and how much those PDF sales numbers will decrease after it is more widely available as a physical product here?* The two things may have nothing to do with each other, but I still wonder.</p>
<p>(*For example, is there a culturally perceived value in reading/having/playing the game early?)</p>
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		<title>By: Angus</title>
		<link>http://www.deadlyfredly.com/2009/12/pdf-print-pricing/comment-page-1/#comment-308</link>
		<dc:creator>Angus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Dec 2009 22:59:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deadlyfredly.com/?p=181#comment-308</guid>
		<description>If you hunt around there are plenty of good value places out there for print editions of things. Amazon heavily discounts beyond the level brick &amp; mortar stores can compete and the Who North America store was/is selling physical copies of Doctor Who: Adventures in Time and Space for only $36.95 (less than $2 more than the PDF is available for) whilst the RRP for that is $60.00.

Many companies put up sneak peaks or previews of games to encourage people to have a look at the product (well, part of the product atleast) before buying which is a lot cheaper than buying a PDF (or anything) and so should help your gaming purse. If you then like what you see in the previews/sneak peaks you can have a hunt round for the cheapest available site/store to buy it from.

I personally am happy to pay a little more to buy it from an actual brick &amp; mortar store (as opposed to an online only discounter) because I strongly feel that people should support their FLGS if they have a good one like Endgame or Leisure Games.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you hunt around there are plenty of good value places out there for print editions of things. Amazon heavily discounts beyond the level brick &amp; mortar stores can compete and the Who North America store was/is selling physical copies of Doctor Who: Adventures in Time and Space for only $36.95 (less than $2 more than the PDF is available for) whilst the RRP for that is $60.00.</p>
<p>Many companies put up sneak peaks or previews of games to encourage people to have a look at the product (well, part of the product atleast) before buying which is a lot cheaper than buying a PDF (or anything) and so should help your gaming purse. If you then like what you see in the previews/sneak peaks you can have a hunt round for the cheapest available site/store to buy it from.</p>
<p>I personally am happy to pay a little more to buy it from an actual brick &amp; mortar store (as opposed to an online only discounter) because I strongly feel that people should support their FLGS if they have a good one like Endgame or Leisure Games.</p>
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		<title>By: MikeRM</title>
		<link>http://www.deadlyfredly.com/2009/12/pdf-print-pricing/comment-page-1/#comment-307</link>
		<dc:creator>MikeRM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Dec 2009 22:09:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deadlyfredly.com/?p=181#comment-307</guid>
		<description>The WotC argument that &quot;The price is for the content&quot; turns around quite neatly, like this: 

A certain portion of the price is for the content (both the value of the content to the consumer, and the cost of putting the content together). The rest is the cost of putting it in a given format and distributing it in that format. So if you have bought the content once, &lt;i&gt;I shouldn&#039;t, logically, be charging you the &quot;content&quot; price a second time&lt;/i&gt; if you want it in a different format. I should just charge you the production + distribution portion of the price. 

Hasten to say, this is not an &quot;entitlement&quot; argument that is saying &quot;all publishers should do this&quot;. It&#039;s something that I personally am planning to do with my next fiction project. If you buy it as an ebook, you get a coupon for the price you pay less the (average) ebook distribution cost, and you can use that coupon when buying a print edition, and vice versa. Same with the audiobook, if any. I think we&#039;re in, or close to, a place where this can work technologically.

You want to read it on your iPhone in odd moments, and listen to it in the car, and read it in the bath as well? OK, you pay something for each of those affordances. But you don&#039;t pay three times for the same content.

The Evil Hat PDF Guarantee seems to be coming from a similar place.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The WotC argument that &#8220;The price is for the content&#8221; turns around quite neatly, like this: </p>
<p>A certain portion of the price is for the content (both the value of the content to the consumer, and the cost of putting the content together). The rest is the cost of putting it in a given format and distributing it in that format. So if you have bought the content once, <i>I shouldn&#8217;t, logically, be charging you the &#8220;content&#8221; price a second time</i> if you want it in a different format. I should just charge you the production + distribution portion of the price. </p>
<p>Hasten to say, this is not an &#8220;entitlement&#8221; argument that is saying &#8220;all publishers should do this&#8221;. It&#8217;s something that I personally am planning to do with my next fiction project. If you buy it as an ebook, you get a coupon for the price you pay less the (average) ebook distribution cost, and you can use that coupon when buying a print edition, and vice versa. Same with the audiobook, if any. I think we&#8217;re in, or close to, a place where this can work technologically.</p>
<p>You want to read it on your iPhone in odd moments, and listen to it in the car, and read it in the bath as well? OK, you pay something for each of those affordances. But you don&#8217;t pay three times for the same content.</p>
<p>The Evil Hat PDF Guarantee seems to be coming from a similar place.</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew</title>
		<link>http://www.deadlyfredly.com/2009/12/pdf-print-pricing/comment-page-1/#comment-306</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Dec 2009 21:44:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deadlyfredly.com/?p=181#comment-306</guid>
		<description>Since I apparently instigated Fred&#039;s thinking here, I feel obligated to weigh in.

My POV is purely consumer, so take that into consideration. I am not &quot;looking for games (PDF or print) to buy,&quot; I am &quot;weighing my options&quot; or &quot;wanting to maximize my buying dollar.&quot; As such, my decisions are based on *value* (perceived or otherwise).

So, what can I get for $35? (Assume I *want* all of these things.)
- A print version of Diaspora. (Yes, I realize I&#039;m not counting tax or shipping, but I&#039;m in the ballpark here.)
- A print+PDF version of Mouse Guard.
- A used copy of Batman: Arkham Asylum.
- (For a few bucks more) an on-sale copy of Dragon Age: Origins (the CRPG version).
- a copy of the Dominion board game.
- Many other high-production-value board games.

Anyone looking to get my &quot;gaming dollar&quot; needs to factor those alternate possibilities into their pricing structure. I realize this may mean some of the bigger houses may not be able to offer PDFs and still maintain a profit, but I think the industry should use PDFs as loss leaders: get me in the door, and I may buy more - at least a print copy, if not other titles.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Since I apparently instigated Fred&#8217;s thinking here, I feel obligated to weigh in.</p>
<p>My POV is purely consumer, so take that into consideration. I am not &#8220;looking for games (PDF or print) to buy,&#8221; I am &#8220;weighing my options&#8221; or &#8220;wanting to maximize my buying dollar.&#8221; As such, my decisions are based on *value* (perceived or otherwise).</p>
<p>So, what can I get for $35? (Assume I *want* all of these things.)<br />
- A print version of Diaspora. (Yes, I realize I&#8217;m not counting tax or shipping, but I&#8217;m in the ballpark here.)<br />
- A print+PDF version of Mouse Guard.<br />
- A used copy of Batman: Arkham Asylum.<br />
- (For a few bucks more) an on-sale copy of Dragon Age: Origins (the CRPG version).<br />
- a copy of the Dominion board game.<br />
- Many other high-production-value board games.</p>
<p>Anyone looking to get my &#8220;gaming dollar&#8221; needs to factor those alternate possibilities into their pricing structure. I realize this may mean some of the bigger houses may not be able to offer PDFs and still maintain a profit, but I think the industry should use PDFs as loss leaders: get me in the door, and I may buy more &#8211; at least a print copy, if not other titles.</p>
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		<title>By: chatterbox</title>
		<link>http://www.deadlyfredly.com/2009/12/pdf-print-pricing/comment-page-1/#comment-305</link>
		<dc:creator>chatterbox</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Dec 2009 21:07:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deadlyfredly.com/?p=181#comment-305</guid>
		<description>Thank you Angus, that&#039;s very reassuring!   Hopefully when the new Doctor shows up in 2010, I&#039;ll have a new campaign going on as well :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you Angus, that&#8217;s very reassuring!   Hopefully when the new Doctor shows up in 2010, I&#8217;ll have a new campaign going on as well <img src='http://www.deadlyfredly.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Angus</title>
		<link>http://www.deadlyfredly.com/2009/12/pdf-print-pricing/comment-page-1/#comment-304</link>
		<dc:creator>Angus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Dec 2009 21:01:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deadlyfredly.com/?p=181#comment-304</guid>
		<description>The complimentary copies don&#039;t count towards sales figures or the chart positioning. Only actual sales count towards that (otherwise you could completely load the ranking system).

Glad you&#039;re enjoying the game!

Angus</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The complimentary copies don&#8217;t count towards sales figures or the chart positioning. Only actual sales count towards that (otherwise you could completely load the ranking system).</p>
<p>Glad you&#8217;re enjoying the game!</p>
<p>Angus</p>
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		<title>By: chatterbox</title>
		<link>http://www.deadlyfredly.com/2009/12/pdf-print-pricing/comment-page-1/#comment-303</link>
		<dc:creator>chatterbox</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Dec 2009 20:55:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deadlyfredly.com/?p=181#comment-303</guid>
		<description>I know I received a free copy of the Doctor Who PDF through RPGNow by using a coupon provided by Cubicle 7 to apologize for delayed delivery.  I wonder how much of the sales figures are really represented by others provided that same coupon?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know I received a free copy of the Doctor Who PDF through RPGNow by using a coupon provided by Cubicle 7 to apologize for delayed delivery.  I wonder how much of the sales figures are really represented by others provided that same coupon?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: chatterbox</title>
		<link>http://www.deadlyfredly.com/2009/12/pdf-print-pricing/comment-page-1/#comment-302</link>
		<dc:creator>chatterbox</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Dec 2009 20:52:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deadlyfredly.com/?p=181#comment-302</guid>
		<description>As a consumer, I like having the PDF of a product for two main reasons.  First, to look up information when I&#039;m at my computer (often) and don&#039;t want to hunt down a book that&#039;s potentially in another room.  Second, I like to be able to copy snippets out for in-play reference that will help me avoid page flipping and multiple bookmarks.   I love the Print+PDF options for this reason, even if it adds to the price.  I&#039;ve been known to buy PDFs for games I physically purchased just to get the ease of use I describe above (Usagi Yojimbo!)   When purchasing a PDF for this supplemental use, I would want the price to be half the physical book cost or less.  However, if I were purchasing the PDF to play from, I&#039;d be happy paying closer to the physical form cost... maybe up to 80-85%, but would still not want to pay &quot;full price&quot; for a PDF.  I&#039;m very much in favor of a discounted or free PDF with physical book purchase.

In the case of PDFs that are part of a box set, which seem popular right now, it depends on the contents.  With Cubicle 7&#039;s Doctor Who, all components save dice are available in the PDF download, and the main concern is that printing your own out may result in flimsy components.  I personally plan on printing out character sheets and gadget sheets for actual play rather than using the ones in the box, except possibly for the sample characters.  If I didn&#039;t have the box set, I could easily play with just the PDF download.  

Another RPG box set example, Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay, is nearly useless when downloaded in PDF form, as many of the components (action cards, career cards, special dice, etc) are not available as a PDF download.  This is partially reflected by the PDF pricing, which is around $25-$30 for all the books, about a quarter of the cost of the box set.  This sounds cheap, but as mentioned above you&#039;re not paying as much because you&#039;re not getting as much - a good analogy would be buying a D&amp;D 4E PHB for cheap that only has the rules and magic items, and none of the classes and powers.  Sure, it can be handy, but it&#039;s not the complete game.

I&#039;m not entirely sure where I was going now, but to sum up, I&#039;m happy to pay more for a PDF that well represents the physical product, but if I already own the physical product I wouldn&#039;t want to pay more than half the original price.  I suppose I advocate tiered pricing for PDFs?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a consumer, I like having the PDF of a product for two main reasons.  First, to look up information when I&#8217;m at my computer (often) and don&#8217;t want to hunt down a book that&#8217;s potentially in another room.  Second, I like to be able to copy snippets out for in-play reference that will help me avoid page flipping and multiple bookmarks.   I love the Print+PDF options for this reason, even if it adds to the price.  I&#8217;ve been known to buy PDFs for games I physically purchased just to get the ease of use I describe above (Usagi Yojimbo!)   When purchasing a PDF for this supplemental use, I would want the price to be half the physical book cost or less.  However, if I were purchasing the PDF to play from, I&#8217;d be happy paying closer to the physical form cost&#8230; maybe up to 80-85%, but would still not want to pay &#8220;full price&#8221; for a PDF.  I&#8217;m very much in favor of a discounted or free PDF with physical book purchase.</p>
<p>In the case of PDFs that are part of a box set, which seem popular right now, it depends on the contents.  With Cubicle 7&#8242;s Doctor Who, all components save dice are available in the PDF download, and the main concern is that printing your own out may result in flimsy components.  I personally plan on printing out character sheets and gadget sheets for actual play rather than using the ones in the box, except possibly for the sample characters.  If I didn&#8217;t have the box set, I could easily play with just the PDF download.  </p>
<p>Another RPG box set example, Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay, is nearly useless when downloaded in PDF form, as many of the components (action cards, career cards, special dice, etc) are not available as a PDF download.  This is partially reflected by the PDF pricing, which is around $25-$30 for all the books, about a quarter of the cost of the box set.  This sounds cheap, but as mentioned above you&#8217;re not paying as much because you&#8217;re not getting as much &#8211; a good analogy would be buying a D&amp;D 4E PHB for cheap that only has the rules and magic items, and none of the classes and powers.  Sure, it can be handy, but it&#8217;s not the complete game.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not entirely sure where I was going now, but to sum up, I&#8217;m happy to pay more for a PDF that well represents the physical product, but if I already own the physical product I wouldn&#8217;t want to pay more than half the original price.  I suppose I advocate tiered pricing for PDFs?</p>
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		<title>By: Angus</title>
		<link>http://www.deadlyfredly.com/2009/12/pdf-print-pricing/comment-page-1/#comment-301</link>
		<dc:creator>Angus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Dec 2009 19:59:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deadlyfredly.com/?p=181#comment-301</guid>
		<description>Hi,

The Doctor Who PDF actually got to #5 at one point on RPGNow and #1 on DriveThru.

Great article (as always) Fred!

Angus</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi,</p>
<p>The Doctor Who PDF actually got to #5 at one point on RPGNow and #1 on DriveThru.</p>
<p>Great article (as always) Fred!</p>
<p>Angus</p>
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		<title>By: Fred Hicks</title>
		<link>http://www.deadlyfredly.com/2009/12/pdf-print-pricing/comment-page-1/#comment-300</link>
		<dc:creator>Fred Hicks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Dec 2009 19:47:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deadlyfredly.com/?p=181#comment-300</guid>
		<description>Thank goodness.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank goodness.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Fred Hicks</title>
		<link>http://www.deadlyfredly.com/2009/12/pdf-print-pricing/comment-page-1/#comment-299</link>
		<dc:creator>Fred Hicks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Dec 2009 19:47:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deadlyfredly.com/?p=181#comment-299</guid>
		<description>Entirely true. It&#039;s clear that the market will bear the cost of a 70% pricing strategy. It&#039;d&#039;ve been interesting to see if they could have hit, say, #1 by pricing it at $20, though, and what the volume difference would have been -- but that&#039;s hard to do with a given product once the product has &quot;launched&quot; at a higher price point.  Every product is its own microcosm of pricing, and the trends you see on one product won&#039;t necessarily bear on the trends that emerge with a new one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Entirely true. It&#8217;s clear that the market will bear the cost of a 70% pricing strategy. It&#8217;d've been interesting to see if they could have hit, say, #1 by pricing it at $20, though, and what the volume difference would have been &#8212; but that&#8217;s hard to do with a given product once the product has &#8220;launched&#8221; at a higher price point.  Every product is its own microcosm of pricing, and the trends you see on one product won&#8217;t necessarily bear on the trends that emerge with a new one.</p>
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		<title>By: Fred Hicks</title>
		<link>http://www.deadlyfredly.com/2009/12/pdf-print-pricing/comment-page-1/#comment-298</link>
		<dc:creator>Fred Hicks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Dec 2009 19:43:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deadlyfredly.com/?p=181#comment-298</guid>
		<description>Yeah, what GMSkarka says is worth keeping in mind. Those pre-production costs are often much less elastic than the actual production costs, too. Production costs can be shopped around a lot more easily, &quot;minmaxed&quot;, split into smaller chunks, etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, what GMSkarka says is worth keeping in mind. Those pre-production costs are often much less elastic than the actual production costs, too. Production costs can be shopped around a lot more easily, &#8220;minmaxed&#8221;, split into smaller chunks, etc.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Pramas</title>
		<link>http://www.deadlyfredly.com/2009/12/pdf-print-pricing/comment-page-1/#comment-297</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Pramas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Dec 2009 19:41:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deadlyfredly.com/?p=181#comment-297</guid>
		<description>When WotC first started selling PDFs, they cost the exact same amount as their print products, which was just crazy. I remember one of the WotC guys lecturing a room full of OGL publishers at GTS about how we were all doing it wrong and should follow their lead. He asserted that the full price was what the content was worth, printed or electronic. Let&#039;s just say we were not convinced by this argument.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When WotC first started selling PDFs, they cost the exact same amount as their print products, which was just crazy. I remember one of the WotC guys lecturing a room full of OGL publishers at GTS about how we were all doing it wrong and should follow their lead. He asserted that the full price was what the content was worth, printed or electronic. Let&#8217;s just say we were not convinced by this argument.</p>
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