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	<title>Comments on: Loyalty</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.deadlyfredly.com/2009/11/loyalty/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.deadlyfredly.com/2009/11/loyalty/</link>
	<description>Gaming. Publishing. Media. Food. Fatherhood.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 07 Sep 2010 03:49:19 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Fred Hicks</title>
		<link>http://www.deadlyfredly.com/2009/11/loyalty/comment-page-1/#comment-79</link>
		<dc:creator>Fred Hicks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 05:09:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deadlyfredly.com/?p=68#comment-79</guid>
		<description>You did very well, George. I just wish I had more projects where your style was the right fit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You did very well, George. I just wish I had more projects where your style was the right fit.</p>
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		<title>By: George Cotronis</title>
		<link>http://www.deadlyfredly.com/2009/11/loyalty/comment-page-1/#comment-78</link>
		<dc:creator>George Cotronis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 03:52:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deadlyfredly.com/?p=68#comment-78</guid>
		<description>Crap! I hope I avoided all those pitfalls when working with you!

Some very good ideas here, Fred. For some crazy reason I commission art for my game now and then and this was pretty helpful advice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Crap! I hope I avoided all those pitfalls when working with you!</p>
<p>Some very good ideas here, Fred. For some crazy reason I commission art for my game now and then and this was pretty helpful advice.</p>
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		<title>By: Zonk-PJ</title>
		<link>http://www.deadlyfredly.com/2009/11/loyalty/comment-page-1/#comment-77</link>
		<dc:creator>Zonk-PJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 22:36:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deadlyfredly.com/?p=68#comment-77</guid>
		<description>Here it is! 
http://demoniosonriente.com/blog/?p=146</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here it is!<br />
<a href="http://demoniosonriente.com/blog/?p=146" rel="nofollow">http://demoniosonriente.com/blog/?p=146</a></p>
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		<title>By: Carcajadas Demoníacas &#187; Archivo del weblog &#187; Lealtad, por Fred Hicks</title>
		<link>http://www.deadlyfredly.com/2009/11/loyalty/comment-page-1/#comment-76</link>
		<dc:creator>Carcajadas Demoníacas &#187; Archivo del weblog &#187; Lealtad, por Fred Hicks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 22:35:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deadlyfredly.com/?p=68#comment-76</guid>
		<description>[...] una entrada escrita por Fred Hicks para su blog Deadly Fredly. En concreto una entrada llamada Loyalty (Lealtad) que trata sobre los Directores de Arte. La entrada me ha parecido increíblemente buena, algo que [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] una entrada escrita por Fred Hicks para su blog Deadly Fredly. En concreto una entrada llamada Loyalty (Lealtad) que trata sobre los Directores de Arte. La entrada me ha parecido increíblemente buena, algo que [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Fred Hicks</title>
		<link>http://www.deadlyfredly.com/2009/11/loyalty/comment-page-1/#comment-75</link>
		<dc:creator>Fred Hicks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 19:22:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deadlyfredly.com/?p=68#comment-75</guid>
		<description>Well, I did say &quot;most&quot;, Chad. :) And we were working with Christian N. St. Pierre there, who&#039;s very good at hitting the mark.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I did say &#8220;most&#8221;, Chad. <img src='http://www.deadlyfredly.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  And we were working with Christian N. St. Pierre there, who&#8217;s very good at hitting the mark.</p>
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		<title>By: Chad Underkoffler</title>
		<link>http://www.deadlyfredly.com/2009/11/loyalty/comment-page-1/#comment-74</link>
		<dc:creator>Chad Underkoffler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 19:16:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deadlyfredly.com/?p=68#comment-74</guid>
		<description>&gt;&gt;While most of my projects haven’t had a super-high “this must be accurately portrayed” need &lt;&lt;

IMAO, the requirements I gave you to give to artists for S7S were fairly high on at least a couple pieces.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt;&gt;While most of my projects haven’t had a super-high “this must be accurately portrayed” need &lt;&lt;</p>
<p>IMAO, the requirements I gave you to give to artists for S7S were fairly high on at least a couple pieces.</p>
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		<title>By: Zonk-PJ</title>
		<link>http://www.deadlyfredly.com/2009/11/loyalty/comment-page-1/#comment-73</link>
		<dc:creator>Zonk-PJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 18:50:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deadlyfredly.com/?p=68#comment-73</guid>
		<description>Thanks!! 
Consider it done! ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks!!<br />
Consider it done! <img src='http://www.deadlyfredly.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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	</item>
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		<title>By: Fred Hicks</title>
		<link>http://www.deadlyfredly.com/2009/11/loyalty/comment-page-1/#comment-72</link>
		<dc:creator>Fred Hicks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 18:40:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deadlyfredly.com/?p=68#comment-72</guid>
		<description>Permission granted, so long as you come back here and post a link to the translation. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Permission granted, so long as you come back here and post a link to the translation. <img src='http://www.deadlyfredly.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Zonk-PJ</title>
		<link>http://www.deadlyfredly.com/2009/11/loyalty/comment-page-1/#comment-71</link>
		<dc:creator>Zonk-PJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 18:28:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deadlyfredly.com/?p=68#comment-71</guid>
		<description>I completely agree with you. 
In fact, Fred, if you give me the permission, I will translate this entry and put it in my blog (crediting you, of course). I know for sure a lot of spanish artists read it... ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I completely agree with you.<br />
In fact, Fred, if you give me the permission, I will translate this entry and put it in my blog (crediting you, of course). I know for sure a lot of spanish artists read it&#8230; <img src='http://www.deadlyfredly.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Steve Long</title>
		<link>http://www.deadlyfredly.com/2009/11/loyalty/comment-page-1/#comment-70</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Long</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 17:13:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deadlyfredly.com/?p=68#comment-70</guid>
		<description>Definitely a lot of good points there Fred!

One reason we at Hero can allow for some &quot;wiggle room&quot; (as you so accurately put it :) ) is that we don&#039;t usually publish books that are specifically tied to a visually distinct setting (many aren&#039;t tied to any setting at all). If I were having to write RPG books set in Glorantha, or Tekumel, or any such similar world, I would definitely be very, very picky about making sure the art &quot;fit&quot; (or, in the case of my own creations, &quot;matched my own sublime artistic vision&quot; :) ). With the Champions Universe stuff we&#039;ll have to be more cautious about what artists do with the art, but even there we&#039;re not nearly as constrained as if I got to write TEKUMEL HERO. ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Definitely a lot of good points there Fred!</p>
<p>One reason we at Hero can allow for some &#8220;wiggle room&#8221; (as you so accurately put it <img src='http://www.deadlyfredly.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  ) is that we don&#8217;t usually publish books that are specifically tied to a visually distinct setting (many aren&#8217;t tied to any setting at all). If I were having to write RPG books set in Glorantha, or Tekumel, or any such similar world, I would definitely be very, very picky about making sure the art &#8220;fit&#8221; (or, in the case of my own creations, &#8220;matched my own sublime artistic vision&#8221; <img src='http://www.deadlyfredly.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  ). With the Champions Universe stuff we&#8217;ll have to be more cautious about what artists do with the art, but even there we&#8217;re not nearly as constrained as if I got to write TEKUMEL HERO. <img src='http://www.deadlyfredly.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Brad J. Murray</title>
		<link>http://www.deadlyfredly.com/2009/11/loyalty/comment-page-1/#comment-69</link>
		<dc:creator>Brad J. Murray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 17:11:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deadlyfredly.com/?p=68#comment-69</guid>
		<description>My relationship with the Diaspora artist is extremely close, but I find being extremely honest and forthright and paying promptly go a long way to keeping that relationship strong. He&#039;s not all that reliable, but I make do.

If I was working with a real artist, though, I&#039;d want to go through some intermediate work (especially if dealing with colour images) because I have some eye for it myself and because I have an idea about what I want. In fact I&#039;m not sure there&#039;s an artist out there who&#039;d be interested in working as closely with me as I&#039;d prefer. I may get to test this in 2010.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My relationship with the Diaspora artist is extremely close, but I find being extremely honest and forthright and paying promptly go a long way to keeping that relationship strong. He&#8217;s not all that reliable, but I make do.</p>
<p>If I was working with a real artist, though, I&#8217;d want to go through some intermediate work (especially if dealing with colour images) because I have some eye for it myself and because I have an idea about what I want. In fact I&#8217;m not sure there&#8217;s an artist out there who&#8217;d be interested in working as closely with me as I&#8217;d prefer. I may get to test this in 2010.</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel Scribner</title>
		<link>http://www.deadlyfredly.com/2009/11/loyalty/comment-page-1/#comment-68</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel Scribner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 17:00:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deadlyfredly.com/?p=68#comment-68</guid>
		<description>I work with non-art vendors all the time: copy-editors, proofreaders, compositors, etc.  With only a very minor amount of abstraction, this is exactly the advice I give to my freelancers and to other editors who are having trouble with their freelancers.  For simplicity, I refer to it as moving from the &quot;child-authoritarian&quot; relationship to the &quot;peers&quot; relationship.  The former involves a lot of opacity and imbalance of information (this is both the result of and a way to maintain an imbalance of power).  The latter should not.  

I would add one thing to the specifics: get it in writing (easy in the age of the internet) and keep it in writing (often forgotten).  I cannot remember how many times I have had a vendor tell me that we agreed upon one set of dates, only to be faced with the prior e-mail in which we agreed to my dates.  This is a very fast route to getting black-listed in my editorial group.

Daniel Scribner
Production Editor
John Wiley &amp; Sons</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I work with non-art vendors all the time: copy-editors, proofreaders, compositors, etc.  With only a very minor amount of abstraction, this is exactly the advice I give to my freelancers and to other editors who are having trouble with their freelancers.  For simplicity, I refer to it as moving from the &#8220;child-authoritarian&#8221; relationship to the &#8220;peers&#8221; relationship.  The former involves a lot of opacity and imbalance of information (this is both the result of and a way to maintain an imbalance of power).  The latter should not.  </p>
<p>I would add one thing to the specifics: get it in writing (easy in the age of the internet) and keep it in writing (often forgotten).  I cannot remember how many times I have had a vendor tell me that we agreed upon one set of dates, only to be faced with the prior e-mail in which we agreed to my dates.  This is a very fast route to getting black-listed in my editorial group.</p>
<p>Daniel Scribner<br />
Production Editor<br />
John Wiley &amp; Sons</p>
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		<title>By: Fred Hicks</title>
		<link>http://www.deadlyfredly.com/2009/11/loyalty/comment-page-1/#comment-67</link>
		<dc:creator>Fred Hicks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 16:12:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deadlyfredly.com/?p=68#comment-67</guid>
		<description>Simon, your description of the information you supply to your artists sounds really familiar.  While most of my projects haven&#039;t had a super-high &quot;this must be accurately portrayed&quot; need (Hero Games is happy to allow for some wiggle room, etc) you still make a fine point about some pieces just not working as they&#039;re rendered.  Which is a big part of why I like to see as much of the intermediate work as possible during the process.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Simon, your description of the information you supply to your artists sounds really familiar.  While most of my projects haven&#8217;t had a super-high &#8220;this must be accurately portrayed&#8221; need (Hero Games is happy to allow for some wiggle room, etc) you still make a fine point about some pieces just not working as they&#8217;re rendered.  Which is a big part of why I like to see as much of the intermediate work as possible during the process.</p>
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		<title>By: Simon Bray</title>
		<link>http://www.deadlyfredly.com/2009/11/loyalty/comment-page-1/#comment-66</link>
		<dc:creator>Simon Bray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 12:05:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deadlyfredly.com/?p=68#comment-66</guid>
		<description>Hi,

 As an art director who has gone through the pain of producing a 389 page fully illustrated book in the last few weeks, I really wish I had seen this before. That said I think I fumbled through and came to the same conclusions and developed a strong rapport with some excellent artists, who are all eager to work for us again. However there are times where you do need to be blunt, and I have had to reject whole commissions, and realised that sometimes artists (including myself) can lose their mojo and miss the mark.
 One thing that many do not realise is that art directors have to compile huge amounts of information and provide a lot of support to their artists. I create PDF&#039;s of sample visual references, give quotes from the text and write an average of 250 per piece commissioned. Then again I am commissioning art for a very complex world, that has been drawn incorrectly so many times in the past, that I had to take the artists through a very steep learning curve. The results were all worth it and I love the guys I worked with for their hard work and commitment to the project.

Simon Bray
Art Director Moon Design Publications
www.glorantha.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi,</p>
<p> As an art director who has gone through the pain of producing a 389 page fully illustrated book in the last few weeks, I really wish I had seen this before. That said I think I fumbled through and came to the same conclusions and developed a strong rapport with some excellent artists, who are all eager to work for us again. However there are times where you do need to be blunt, and I have had to reject whole commissions, and realised that sometimes artists (including myself) can lose their mojo and miss the mark.<br />
 One thing that many do not realise is that art directors have to compile huge amounts of information and provide a lot of support to their artists. I create PDF&#8217;s of sample visual references, give quotes from the text and write an average of 250 per piece commissioned. Then again I am commissioning art for a very complex world, that has been drawn incorrectly so many times in the past, that I had to take the artists through a very steep learning curve. The results were all worth it and I love the guys I worked with for their hard work and commitment to the project.</p>
<p>Simon Bray<br />
Art Director Moon Design Publications<br />
<a href="http://www.glorantha.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.glorantha.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: Fred Hicks</title>
		<link>http://www.deadlyfredly.com/2009/11/loyalty/comment-page-1/#comment-64</link>
		<dc:creator>Fred Hicks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Nov 2009 21:43:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deadlyfredly.com/?p=68#comment-64</guid>
		<description>Happy to be of service. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Happy to be of service. <img src='http://www.deadlyfredly.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Fred Hicks</title>
		<link>http://www.deadlyfredly.com/2009/11/loyalty/comment-page-1/#comment-63</link>
		<dc:creator>Fred Hicks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Nov 2009 21:43:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deadlyfredly.com/?p=68#comment-63</guid>
		<description>Yeah, once you establish a really good rapport with an artist, you start to conceive of new projects with that artist specifically in mind. It&#039;s analogous to a screenwriter writing a role for a particular actor, I think.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, once you establish a really good rapport with an artist, you start to conceive of new projects with that artist specifically in mind. It&#8217;s analogous to a screenwriter writing a role for a particular actor, I think.</p>
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		<title>By: Fred Hicks</title>
		<link>http://www.deadlyfredly.com/2009/11/loyalty/comment-page-1/#comment-62</link>
		<dc:creator>Fred Hicks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Nov 2009 21:42:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deadlyfredly.com/?p=68#comment-62</guid>
		<description>Absolutely. I decided to stick specifically to the art direction/artist relationship, but I did have the broader topic of business relationships in the back of my mind as I wrote.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Absolutely. I decided to stick specifically to the art direction/artist relationship, but I did have the broader topic of business relationships in the back of my mind as I wrote.</p>
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		<title>By: J B Bell</title>
		<link>http://www.deadlyfredly.com/2009/11/loyalty/comment-page-1/#comment-59</link>
		<dc:creator>J B Bell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Nov 2009 18:45:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deadlyfredly.com/?p=68#comment-59</guid>
		<description>This advice would go for a lot of business relationships. Web design comes to mind for me; something I don&#039;t do, but have sought contracts for (for a church group), and frequently hear many nightmare stories about. Basically being clear about your spec and communicating continuously is huge for, well, any relationship. You&#039;ve summed it up very well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This advice would go for a lot of business relationships. Web design comes to mind for me; something I don&#8217;t do, but have sought contracts for (for a church group), and frequently hear many nightmare stories about. Basically being clear about your spec and communicating continuously is huge for, well, any relationship. You&#8217;ve summed it up very well.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Gray</title>
		<link>http://www.deadlyfredly.com/2009/11/loyalty/comment-page-1/#comment-58</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Gray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Nov 2009 17:45:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deadlyfredly.com/?p=68#comment-58</guid>
		<description>Nice post.

As someone who&#039;s done just a small amount of art gathering, it&#039;s very clear to me that there&#039;s two facets to the artist&#039;s role: producing good work, and customer relations/communication. The latter is probably more important, as it&#039;s harder for someone who doesn&#039;t have it to develop it, whereas I think you can work with someone talented to smooth off any rough edges on the work. 

Definitely going silent and leaving me guessing is a good way to drop down my list. And actually, for a small press guy doing their own work this is really *disappointing*, because the reason I&#039;ve contacted you in the first place is because I&#039;ve spent time hunting around and said, &quot;Yes, that guy&#039;s style of art would look really cool on the pages of my current brainchild!&quot; 

Conversely, there people I&#039;ve worked with who I&#039;d look for excuses to use again because I know they&#039;ll be pleasant and helpful. I was talking to one of these at a con this weekend and was actually disappointed that I couldn&#039;t fit his style into my current project. *That&#039;s* what Fred is talking about.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice post.</p>
<p>As someone who&#8217;s done just a small amount of art gathering, it&#8217;s very clear to me that there&#8217;s two facets to the artist&#8217;s role: producing good work, and customer relations/communication. The latter is probably more important, as it&#8217;s harder for someone who doesn&#8217;t have it to develop it, whereas I think you can work with someone talented to smooth off any rough edges on the work. </p>
<p>Definitely going silent and leaving me guessing is a good way to drop down my list. And actually, for a small press guy doing their own work this is really *disappointing*, because the reason I&#8217;ve contacted you in the first place is because I&#8217;ve spent time hunting around and said, &#8220;Yes, that guy&#8217;s style of art would look really cool on the pages of my current brainchild!&#8221; </p>
<p>Conversely, there people I&#8217;ve worked with who I&#8217;d look for excuses to use again because I know they&#8217;ll be pleasant and helpful. I was talking to one of these at a con this weekend and was actually disappointed that I couldn&#8217;t fit his style into my current project. *That&#8217;s* what Fred is talking about.</p>
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		<title>By: Fred Hicks</title>
		<link>http://www.deadlyfredly.com/2009/11/loyalty/comment-page-1/#comment-57</link>
		<dc:creator>Fred Hicks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Nov 2009 17:31:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deadlyfredly.com/?p=68#comment-57</guid>
		<description>Ray, that&#039;s fine advice if you&#039;re talking to a writer producing a written end product, and I do try to keep it in mind when that&#039;s my end goal. But as an art director, I&#039;ve found that the artists I work with appreciate the extent to which I communicate with them. I&#039;m not going to sacrifice that in the interests of brevity when brevity isn&#039;t in service to my goal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ray, that&#8217;s fine advice if you&#8217;re talking to a writer producing a written end product, and I do try to keep it in mind when that&#8217;s my end goal. But as an art director, I&#8217;ve found that the artists I work with appreciate the extent to which I communicate with them. I&#8217;m not going to sacrifice that in the interests of brevity when brevity isn&#8217;t in service to my goal.</p>
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